Vapor Boots and Sequence Plate

MoggieMoggie Posts: 105 Baller
I’m currently running double Vectors on my 2013 Strada and the laces have started to break. Using some ‘man-maths’ I’ve rationalised that I’m better off upgrading to some 2015 Vapors. I’m a US size 11-11.5 and from another post it seems the size 12 is the way to go. Since my vectors just screwed straight to the ski what is the situation regarding the Vapors and the Sequence Plate? Is this something which is necessary to mount the boots or does it provide some performance benefit?

Many Thanks
A bad day on the water is better than a good day in the office.

Comments

  • ozskiozski Posts: 1,537
    Moggie take a look at the Profile boot as well. Its a step up from the Vectors...
    'Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.'' Boat 2005 Nautique 196 6L ZO - Ski: KD Platinum

  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,192 Mega Baller
    @Moggie‌ The Sequence plate is nice piece of gear. There are two sets of central holes you can choose to locate the plate on the ski that are slightly offset from each other. They give you the ability to fine-tune your binding location.

    Furthermore, you can choose to use the floating inserts at the front and/or back or not. Wherever you use the floating inserts, the ski is allowed to flex more than usual. This may make the ski turn better, or even turn too aggressively. If you find the ski tends to bite too hard when turning, remove the floating inserts from the front and bolt it down tight to the ski. If the ski still wants to turn too aggressively, remove the back inserts and bolt firmly too.

    You can also space and rotate your bindings to preference.

    Finally, the Sequence plate isn't your only option. There are also two separate Radar binding plates so you can have a more traditional separate plate on each boot. Combined, these are a bit lighter than the Sequence but they do not float or provide as many fore and aft location options as the Sequence. You can, however, still rotate your bindings as much as you like with the double plates.
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
    Moggie
  • WolfeieWolfeie Posts: 164 Baller
    Have been using the sequence plate for 4-5 years. At our lake we are always trying new skiis
    (thanks to Horton) or jumping on a friends ski to try it. Makes changing bindings quick and simple, only six screws. I actually own two sequence plates and have a older pair of vapor bindings on one of the plates if I want to jump on a ski to try it. I don't think of it as fas as
    performance, just a nice convenience.
    Brad Wolfe - Ski West Village, Arvin, Ca; Radar Pro Build, SN 200, I can see Ball of Spray headquarters from my lake house.
    SkiJay
  • MoggieMoggie Posts: 105 Baller
    Ok so I have the Vapor boots on the sequence plate but I have no idea how it fits to the ski.

    I have 6 screws, 4 doughnut shaped washers and 4 metal spacers. Can someone advise what goes where and which way round etc. I tried to find some articles in the forum but the links don't seem to work anymore.

    Cheers
    A bad day on the water is better than a good day in the office.
  • wtrskiorwtrskior Posts: 704 Crazy Baller
    @moggie First you want to measure the distance from the lower lace on the back of the front boot to the end of the plate, this will make measuring and adjusting boot location easy with both boots on the plate, on the ski. My sequence plate is 14.75" from rear heal to end of plate. Most skis are somewhere between 28-30" from rear of front boot to tail.

    You do not have to use the metal stand off washers, I simply put 1 plastic disc on the 2 front screws to fit between the plate and ski, and screw the plate right down. Rear screws you use the horseshoe, and can do the same thing, or use the spacers. Plastic washer always goes against the ski. I actually keep the rear of my plate floating using the spacers, but not the front. put the spacer on, then thread a plastic disc so the disc is what's touching the ski, not the metal spacer.



  • HortonHorton Posts: 25,046 Administrator

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  • MoggieMoggie Posts: 105 Baller
    That's great thanks @wtrskior. What about the middle screws? Are they supposed to be clapped down or left floating a little?
    A bad day on the water is better than a good day in the office.
  • schaferschafer Posts: 290 Baller
    @Moggie‌ the middle screws should be down tight. The front and back are the ones you have an option to float.
    Quest for the Purple Loop
  • davemacdavemac Posts: 445 Baller
    This might be of help....
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,192 Mega Baller
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
    wtrskior
  • MoggieMoggie Posts: 105 Baller
    Thank you all for your help.
    A bad day on the water is better than a good day in the office.
  • MoggieMoggie Posts: 105 Baller
    So I tried out my double Vapor bindings on the sequence plate for the first time this morning and wow, wow, wow, wow, WOW! I expected a change but it was like I was on a new ski. For reference of my limited ability, I consistently ski 34 mph 15off, and had only once run 36mph 15off; I occasionally run 34mph 22 off.

    First the performance; having such direct connection to the ski reminded me of the first time I skied my 2013 Strada, it felt so twitchy when skiing flat, it was begging to be on an edge. Across the wakes I could hold an angle I’d never achieved with the Vector boots. They felt so solid. Strangely it made the wakes feel harder, not in a bad way, just that I felt more of a thud. I really struggled to engage the turn on my onside. I didn’t feel the snap like I used to. It was turning, just slower than I expected and wanted. I will double check binding position tonight. My offsides however were great. They felt fast without snapping and just so so smooth. The result was that I matched my PB (2 @ 22off, 36mph). I should have run much deeper into 22off but made a silly error at 2 and only tried the pass once. I followed up with the easiest 22off 34mph I’ve ever skied. 22off 36mph is going down and very soon!

    The downside; my feet were in a whole world of pain. I’m a 11/11.5 shoe size and ordered the Vapors in a 12. Standing on the dock they’re fine, I can just feel the end of the boot with my big toe. After a few passes however the arch of my feet were in agony. It’s like I did two sets skiing on my toes. Not sure if this is good and I will adjust or whether I need to do something about it. The other thing was that my front quad felt burnt out after 3 passes. It’s like I was skiing with one leg. In my back boot I used the sole-insert to lift the heel a little so I suspect this may be why. Considering I’m often guilty of being too heavy on my back foot this could be a good thing, once my leg adjusts to the new torture.

    All in all, for the satisfaction of running more buoys I’ll gladly suffer the pain. Hopefully it’s just because they’re new and I’ll adjust. I could look at having the liners heat moulded, not sure how much of a difference this makes. This wasn’t supposed to be a review but I’ve just kept rambling. Anyway it’s been an interesting morning. If anyone’s had a similar experience with the Vapors it would be useful to hear how you got on with them after the honeymoon period.
    A bad day on the water is better than a good day in the office.
  • ZmanZman Posts: 1,065 Crazy Baller
    @Moggie‌ I am surprised size 12 would be tight on your big toe and uncomfortable when your shoe size is 11/11.5. That should not be the case at all.
    At the risk of insulting you (don't mean to) - be sure you did not have left liner in right boot, and right liner in left boot. Not that I ever did this, but if you do, they will feel tight and cramp your big toe. If they were correct, give them time, they will pack out a bit and you will love them.
    Blood type IPA
  • MoggieMoggie Posts: 105 Baller
    Haha, yeah the liners are on the right foot. They're perfectly comfortable on the dock, just painful when skiing. The big toe isn't a problem its more the arch of my foot if anything.

    Does anyone know where to measure front binding position from?
    A bad day on the water is better than a good day in the office.
  • wtrskiorwtrskior Posts: 704 Crazy Baller
    @moggie heat molding will help for sure. You can do it at home in your ove. Also maybe Try a better insole, have you ever had orthotics?
  • JordanJordan Posts: 980 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    When you heat mold the liners...put some wadded up paper towel in the toe box...it will push the padding out a little further and give your big toe some extra room after the boot cools down.
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,347 Mega Baller
    edited November 2014
    I used some folded up paper towels taped over my toes and cut the toe off a thick sock and pulled that end over my toes before molding my liners and never had a problem.

    Regarding measuring binding position use the stitches at the back of the boot on the bottom.

    I would figure out how far the back of the rear boot is from the back of your front boot for easy adjustments to skis if using the Sequence plate. For a friends ski we used a straight edge at the back of the front boot and one at the back of the ski then measured off to the side to get a binding position.
    Mark Shaffer
  • Mike GileMike Gile Posts: 254 Solid Baller
    Go with a custom foot bed. I had my boot fitter make me a custom pair and would never go back. At least get a set of super feet liners.
    Glad to hear of the improvement!
    A_B
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,702 Mega Baller
    edited November 2014
    For everyone with a Sequence plate... The next time you take your binding setup off the ski, do this:
    1. Mark, take notes, pictures of the position of the rear boot shell on the sequence plate, then remove it.
    2. Measure from the back of your front boot to the back edge of the Sequence plate. Mark this number down on your sequence plate somewhere near the rear of your front boot.
    3. Remount your rear shell to the Sequence plate.
    From now on, you can simply measure the distance from the end of the Sequence plate to the tail of the ski and then add the measurement you marked from the steps above to get the total front foot measurement. This allows you to easily measure without having to remove your rear shell.

    Even more cool would be if Radar provided the following measurements:
    1. From front foot shells' center screw hole to rear of sequence plate
    2. From center insert to rear of binding for each size of Vapor/Strada shell.
    Quick Reference Chart that lists all of the shell sizes and their Sequence Plate Measurements:
    #1 - #2 for every size = Front Boot distance from Rear of Sequence Plate.

    @eddie_roberts_jr‌ - what do you think?
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
    slow
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