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What is your realistic price for a new slalom tug? (v2)

ToddLToddL Posts: 2,823 Mega Baller
edited January 2015 in Boat Talk
Expanding upon @Bulldog's survey... adding more granularity and breadth to the choices.

With all the talk lately about new boat pricing I am just curious what you ballers THINK the price should be realistically....I know we all want really cheap boats with all the latest options try to keep it as honest as you can.

-- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.

What is your realistic price for a new slalom tug? (v2) 94 votes

Under $40k USD
15%
Than_BogancamjamAndersonSkiTeamtrishel41SkiOrDieWaternutSkoot1123ALPJrRivvywtrskiorspudgiantjoericski39adkh2oskierCoachMike 15 votes
Between $40-45k USD
27%
Ed_ObermeierDaveDmlangekstateskierLZywicki1wcalrobertsAndreMattPPJBulldogMateo_Vargasswc5150Pat MTNh2oskierThePantsManCanIlivetoskiDsullyThe_MSricobigtex2011 26 votes
Between $45-50k USD
17%
scotchipmanGAJ0004Garnlottawattaski4xtcchris_logandtm8119jcampZmanDkLkSkrpaulaupatkingErik4cjerrymI5boisupersonicus 16 votes
Between $50-55k USD
13%
HortonauskierKelvinAlilakeaustinskierJordanDacon62jstaab3MichaelGoodmanskihartescmanazemelligMattL 13 votes
Between $55-60k USD
12%
RogerForrestGumpbajaToddLskinutjayskiskirayskierjpkurtBradyGreg BanishTyler_R 12 votes
Between $60-65k USD
6%
Chuck_DickeyBKaussiemcSkiJaydcovingtonMattW 6 votes
Between $65-70k USD
5%
raynskiinxsskinonstopoldjeepThisUserNameIsDumb 5 votes
Between $70-75k USD
1%
Jody_Seal 1 vote
Between $75-80k USD
0%
Above $80k USD
0%
MattL
«13

Comments

  • BulldogBulldog Posts: 1,014 Crazy Baller
    Between $40-45k USD
    @ToddL‌ thank you. Your version is much better than the one I screwed up last night. I think most Ballers would agree that the pricing of the 2015 boats is WAY to high. It is going to kill off our sport for sure.
    Mike Loeffler - "Someone somewhere is having a real problem today...My bad skiing is NOT one of them"
  • lakeaustinskierlakeaustinskier Posts: 354 Solid Baller
    Between $50-55k USD
    I'm realistic. Traditional ski boats are expensive since the market is so small. At the Austin Boat Show there were about 200 boats in the show and only two comp boats (2 Prostars from the same dealer that Todd has already posted the sticker on). The Nautique and Malibu dealers didn't even bother bringing a comp boat to the show.
    Ted Thomson, Austin Texas, Aquaplex
  • GAJ0004GAJ0004 Posts: 1,095 Baller
    Between $45-50k USD
    The Nautique dealer near me does not keep them in stock. I would have to order one if I were buying brand new. I would do that anyway since the next boat I buy will be the last boat I buy. Mine may be old, but it still gets the job done with flying colors. Fewer people will ski behind it because they say the wake is too big, or too hard.
    Gary Janzig Streetsboro Ohio, skis at Lake Latonka, Mercer Pennsylvania slalom,trick,kneeboard,barefoot
  • MISkierMISkier Posts: 2,661 Mega Baller
    Between $40-45k USD
    I would pay $50,000 to $55,000 if it had bimini top, pull up cleats, heater, shower, heated seats (passenger, too), jump seat (if applicable), bow filler cushion (if applicable).

    For the base boat, trailer, cover - $40,000 to $45,000.
    The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears.
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,437 Mega Baller
    edited January 2015
    Between $65-70k USD
    I'm putting 65-70K because for me a slalom tug needs to be a V-drive crossover, and I realize they cost more. Although honestly you can't actually buy a new one for 65-70K any more. For a DD ski only boat I'd be at 40K or under because I'd have to own a second boat.
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • swc5150swc5150 Posts: 2,305 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Between $40-45k USD
    Agree MIskier, a base tug should top out at $45k. I hate to beat it to death, but I paid for $29,600 for my brand new, '06 196SE. That was the total with a color matched Eagle trailer ($27,600 for the boat alone). I know it was a killer deal, but the fact remains the dealer sold it to me. 9 years later, a stripped 200CB priced out at $59k. That's some wicked inflation friends!

    So how many fewer DD ski boats are sold now than in years past? I seem to remember about 200 196's being sold each year, with 200's exceeding that (I may be way off though?). I assumed wake boats were picking off high-end stern drive / weekend warrior buyers and not slalom converts as much? Not that my universe is that larger, but I don't personally know anyone who used to run a comp boat that now runs a wake barge.
    Scott Calderwood
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,523 Mega Baller
    Under $40k USD
    I assume we mean what I would *pay*, not what I believe to be the likeliest price. I understand this means I am not getting a new boat at this time, but if the point of this is to understand what the market could bear for a new boat, what matters is what I'd be willing to pay.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
    Skoot1123
  • bigtex2011bigtex2011 Posts: 489 Crazy Baller
    Between $40-45k USD
    we bought a 2 year old boat with 200 hours for between 40 and 45. love it
    6ballsPJ
  • GAJ0004GAJ0004 Posts: 1,095 Baller
    Between $45-50k USD
    @dcovington, your insights have opened my eyes. I knew the EPA would put a squeeze on everything, but it is worse than I thought. Hopefully the drop in oil prices we are seeing will be long term and keep the prices of boats under control.
    Gary Janzig Streetsboro Ohio, skis at Lake Latonka, Mercer Pennsylvania slalom,trick,kneeboard,barefoot
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,204 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    There is no way in holy schmoley that I'm paying these dollars for a rapidly depreciating piece of recreational equipment with little to no performance or useful life advantage over one that costs half as much in the used market.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • OTFOTF Posts: 327 Crazy Baller
    I'm with @Than_Bogan for a recreational toy 40k is the max I'd pay on my own. With used boats in the market I could live with something with some use on it for half the price. At the end of the day in my mind it's the skiing I'm buying not the boat.
  • Chuck_DickeyChuck_Dickey Posts: 1,462 Crazy Baller
    edited January 2015
    Between $60-65k USD
    I travel for work and rent cars almost every week. I see a quality spread and experience the build quality first hand. I'm not going to buy a cheap POS ski boat just because it can pull me down the course. I spend many more hours driving my ski boat than skiing behind it and the build quality matters a lot, to me.

    I buy a new ski nearly every year and sell my old one, the difference is my cost for using it for a year. Boats should be judged closely to that model. Prices will never come down on quality goods so we have to decide what quality level were willing to accept.

    I'm a MasterCraft Promo Team member and someone is going to score when they buy my 2014 beauty.
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,583 Mega Baller
    edited January 2015
    Mid 30k is about as much as I could justify spending. But there are people that can afford the new boats. The local Supra dealer told me he has people writing checks for 100k wakeboarding boats on a regular basis. The rest of us just have to wait for the used boats to come down to what we can afford.

    I was a MC promo member in the late 80s early 90s. My first year was 87 and if I remember right promo cost was about 12k. I remember in the early 90s priced went up pretty fast and were getting over 20K. The economy was slow back then and I was finding it harder and harder to sell 20 something K boat and got out. I thought that was expensive then. At that time I would have never dreamed boat would get to 80K in my lifetime.
  • Between $65-70k USD
    It's hard to say that you would realistically only pay in the 40k range, since none exist! I guess my next question for this thread is:

    What features do you HAVE to have in your slalom tug?
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,823 Mega Baller
    Between $55-60k USD
    Must have?
    Slalom-friendly and proven hull, ZO engine, Pylon, windshield, drivers seat, steering wheel and throttle, bench passenger seat, engine cover, and some ballast weight positioned to make the boat ride like the more expensive one. Pretty bare bones. Maybe even delete the seats and just have some velcro in the floor so that we can secure lawn chairs where needed. Poor-man's trim line for sure. Do you think that would be under $40k?
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • Between $65-70k USD
    @toddL We might be getting close with that!
  • dcovingtondcovington Posts: 6 Baller
    Between $60-65k USD
    Another way view it.

    maybe skiers need to look at the Cost of Ownership and the quality in regards to the return on using the boat for a period of time??? if you buy a boat and use to for 300-500 hours, there will be a cost assigned to that use?? what that price is will have a bearing on the quality of the build. the best built boats will last longer and have better resale than the ones that are bear bones with no real warranty or factory behind it.

    if it cost you 25k, over a period of time, to ski behind a boat you will get every weekend at your local tournament, i don't see this as an issue? you have to justify the boat cost per month like the light bill in your house? having the latest hull for any brand is the advantage you will have over the other guy that is skiing on a retired hull bottom. nautique is getting ready to replace the 200 hull again. they will get new skiers upgrading immediately, and it will be a buyers market for those skiers that want a 200 coming out of a 196!

    the posts above have proven there is a used market from 25-50k depending on the boat and how old it is?

    i don't like spending 60k for a new truck, but when i do, i put 100k on it in 3-4 years and its worth about 25k plus. that is just what it cost to run it and i am ok with that.

    do i think the boats are getting too high? yes, but if the cost of a bouy goes from 16.00 to 50.00
    next year, are we going to start skiing around milk jugs again?????

    not likely.

    donny covington

  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,437 Mega Baller
    edited January 2015
    Between $65-70k USD
    @ThisUserNameIsDumb‌ - one exists - Gekko GTS20 $34K on a trailer with ZO according to another thread.
    -
    @dcovington‌ - 60K for a truck? Wow, I could have bought 2 of my current trucks for that (new). On trucks (and boats) the things that really drive depreciation are all of the gizmos that you pay through the nose for but don't mean much at resale time.
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
    Ed_Obermeier
  • RAWSkiRAWSki Posts: 642 Crazy Baller
    Between $40-45k USD
    @MISkier‌ You just described spec'd and exactly priced the CP!
  • dcovingtondcovington Posts: 6 Baller
    Between $60-65k USD
    2015 chevy 3500 crew cab with duramax-60k give or take--since the gekko is not approved for tournaments--its not an option for most skiers who ski every weekend tournaments. most people want to train on the same boats or like, that they will get o the weekend at an event.

    what is the resale for a 3-4 year old gekko with 300 hours or more???
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,437 Mega Baller
    edited January 2015
    Between $65-70k USD
    @dcovington‌ - no idea, never seen a used one for sale. I believe that in another thread it was said that Gekko was planning on getting at least one of the boats certified. But it brings up an interesting mentality - buying things with an eye towards resale. I guess if you change boats like you change underwear that is an issue. I got 9 years out of the last boat (a bayliner that I sold for $3000 less than I paid for it new) and I expect to get at least that long out of the 2 year old VTX I bought last year.
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,523 Mega Baller
    Under $40k USD
    Cost of ownership is absolutely the way to think about it, but I believe that has substantially changed as well. I bought my first boat not THAT long ago (1997) for $30k and sold it 8 years later for $18k. Less than $1500 per year cost of ownership. My second boat (2005) was about $40k and I sold it 8 years later for $22.5. A bit over $2000 per year cost of ownership. If I were to buy a new boat now, for e.g. $75k, what am I going to be looking at eight years from now? At that point I'll be trying to sell it to guys like on this thread, who want to pay no more than $40k. That could work out to over $4000 per year cost of ownership.

    A quality used boat with ZO can have a dramatically lower cost of ownership. Until these come a little closer together, I can't come close to justifying a new boat. The actual value to me of a new boat is only a little higher than a used one, so the cost of ownership can only be a little higher for me to consider it.

    I kinda hate the word "afford." Can I afford an $80k boat? Yes. Does it bring me value comensurate to its cost of ownership? No.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
    oldjeep
  • MISkierMISkier Posts: 2,661 Mega Baller
    edited January 2015
    Between $40-45k USD
    @RAWSki‌, is that for a new CP? Because I am hearing/seeing here that the new boats can't be built for that price. So, either that isn't new or it will snap in half after a month or Centurion is selling them at a loss to get market share/exposure.
    The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears.
  • kstateskierkstateskier Posts: 524 Solid Baller
    Between $40-45k USD
    This past summer I struggled with the increasing price of boats. I was in the market but there was a huge gap in 2004 - 2010 boat market (essentially under $30K slalom boats). Presumably because those owners with boats of that age are holding onto them for the same reason I would.

    I had $20K - $25K in cash to spend towards a boat and even though I don't have any vehicle payments I didn't want to borrow to buy a newer boat and saddle myself with a $350 - $400 payment for a boat that isn't used 12 months a year.

    My options were to buy an older boat and buy it with cash or buy a newer boat and take on the payments.

    I ultimately found an earlier model LXI that I was able to buy outright. But the idea of taking all my backup cash and dumping it as a downpayment on a new boat AND having an additional $300 - $400 payment/mo didn't seem reasonable. Not because I couldn't afford to do so, but more because I was spending more money to own that boat for a fixed period of time and from the end of the rope or the driver seat there wasn't THAT MUCH DIFFERENCE.

    Sure the new boats are nice, but having just took a set 2 days ago behind a 2015 CC 200 - I can tell you it wasn't $4800 (annually) better than the same end of the rope behind my paid for LXI!
    KStateSkier
    Bradley Beach - Lone Rock Ski Club, Missouri
    2004 Malibu Response LXI, 2014 D3 Helix 66"
    Ed_Obermeier
  • swc5150swc5150 Posts: 2,305 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Between $40-45k USD
    Looking at poll numbers, 56% won't spend over $50k...and BOS members must make up a decent proportion of DD boat sales? This doesn't bode well for promo members in the near future I'm guessing? As the spread between what a promo member has to pay and what the boat will sell for widens, this could be a death spiral for DD boats at some point soon. Obviously it's still winter, but there's quite a large inventory just on SIA right now. Plus, some of the asking prices are quite good, and still the boats haven't been snatched up. I hope I'm wrong, and there are still enough new buyers to keep DD boats in the product lines.
    Scott Calderwood
  • ThePantsManCanThePantsManCan Posts: 453 Baller
    Between $40-45k USD
    I could pay off the rest of my mortgage for the cost of that new ProStar on the Boat Shows thread. I'm 32, and even if the house was paid, I still would not spend 80k for new boat. At 62, I would not spend 80k for a new boat... even if 80k was worth 40k by then.

    In ten years, I'll pick up a beautiful CC200 or ProStar for 25K. For now, my Dirt Cheap, Malibu Echelon will keep yanking my arms out of their sockets just fine thank you!
    60% of the time, it works.... All the time.
    kstateskierEd_ObermeierWish
  • BKBK Posts: 23 Baller
    Between $60-65k USD
    @swc5150‌ waaay too early to make the claim that this is representative of the market. Only 50ish votes total, and it'd be important to know how many have actually bought a new boat in the near term (2010?) market to know whether or not they're a qualified segment (REAL typical buyers, not promos, or complainers and tire kickers...no offense meant). It's silly to get so worked up about it. The market will dictate what the co's do, not this thread. And the co's will adjust accordingly. Buy new if the deal suits you, or buy used.
    The Austin boat show had two Prostars, not only the one @ToddL‌ mentioned that started the discussion. And the one not mentioned was $8K less than what Todd showed. But that wouldn't be as controversial to show would it? I was less impressed about the stickers, because I know that's not what you'll pay...and was much more impressed that this sole dealer (Boat Town) brought TWO Prostars; I haven't seen that at the Austin show in years. Good for them, and us!
    Than_Bogan
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,523 Mega Baller
    Under $40k USD
    @BK That *is* great news.

    And if it turns out there are tons of people out there willing to pay 60-80k for single-purpose ski boats, then the cost of ownership could be quite reasonable: Pay 70k now, sell for 55k after 8-10 years. I am finding that VERY hard to imagine, but hopefully I'm wrong.

    Certainly the market will dictate things, not this thread. But I'm concerned that the companies are building the "wrong" thing: something with bells and whistles that a pure 3-event skier isn't willing to pay for, but that isn't really a desirable boat for a generalist. And then if they can't sell those, they might entirely abandon us, which would REALLY SUCK. Again, hopefully I'm wrong.

    So I see the potential value of this thread being to spark some thinking by some boat industry folks about how they can continue to serve our market.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
    oldjeepBK
  • swc5150swc5150 Posts: 2,305 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Between $40-45k USD
    I hope you're right @BK, but I didn't make a claim, it was a "I hope not" statement. But when the DD market share is about 400 boats per year or so, 56 people (target market) is not an insignificant number.
    Scott Calderwood
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