Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

12" White Stickers
BallOfSpray $5 Donation
BallOfSpray $10 Donation

The 'Load explode' early edge change

cragginshredcragginshred Posts: 722 Crazy Baller
As I continue to get this big jump dialed from -22 to -28 and hopefully into some -32's this summer getting an early edge change is increasingly making more sense. Watching my videos it is evident I am pulling a bit too long and edge changing late which makes me fast into one ball and only faster as the pass goes down.

In the Physical therapy world we analyze movement of every sport and if you could summarize what the musculature does in a few words it would be 'Load explode'. At a glance golf, tennis, baseball, boxing etc all have one thing in common -they load and explode.

Similarly in our sport off the ball we stack or load and somewhere in the white water you explode which allows the energy from the stack to translate to the ski causing it to change edges and actually decelerate wide and early into the turn -which currently eludes me.

Most of you are possibly saying 'no kidding Don'. But for me this is making a lot more sense now. So here is the poll -

1) Do you stop pulling at the center of the white water as TW and others say, if so think back before the edge change was a natural result of your perfect stack....what did you do to explode this energy and promote the edge transition? Or simply put learn where to do this to prevent excessive speed?

2) Do you pull past the center out to the edge of the 2nd white water and how do you promote this edge change if anything? Also if you pull white water to white water, how do you prevent gaining too much speed?

3) Are you like me, coming into 1/3/5 way too fast (RFF) and still learning how to come off the pull (at the correct time) but stay on the handle till the boat takes it?

Because so much of my energy has been focused on the 'stack' I pull too hard and too long. With all respect to you who mastered this 20 years ago please don't respond with 'it is the natural result of being stacked'. Yes this might be true for you, but in my world I am still learning to dial this in.

Talk to me Ballers!

Vapor pro 2017


  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 2,138 ★★★★Quad Panda Award Recipient ★★★★
    There is a difference between holding too long and staying on the handle, I maybe wrong but most accomplished skiers, seem to transition behind the boat, but keep the handle with them, at 34mph maybe the transition is a nano second later, only my thoughts, but the best time to release the ski would be when the load is greatest at the bottom of the pendulum, this is the point where there is maximum kinetic energy, releasing at this point should result in good outward direction.
    Caviat: Just my thoughts others might have a different prospesctive

    If Only I Was Perfect

  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,039 Mega Baller
    Video would help. Most -22 working on -28 don't create the same angle out of the ball as the guys that run -38 and seem to change edges behind the boat. If you are fast into 1, 3, 5 it could be that you are pulling too long but pulling too long could be a symptom of something else before that.
    Mark Shaffer
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,117
    edited February 2015
    This discussion is really about two different things, IMO. It's a difficult concept to communicate and understand at 28 off. I remember wanting to beat my ski across my forehead every time my coach told me don't pull long, but keep the load up. The edge change happens because of the energy you take to centerline, not because of how long you pull. The amount of energy is based on the speed, angle, and load. This concept is completely seperate from what you do with your core and upper body from the centerline out, which is to maintain the line tension you created coming at centerline all the way out until you'release the handle.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 2,222
    One thing that will help you a lot is to get "Up on the Boat" as much as you can when you pull out for your gates, and turn in while you still have some speed...You have to start with angle in order to maintain angle throughout the course..Speed equals angle, and also allows you to load from a wider position to accomplish the early edge change you are seeking.
    Special Thanks to Performance Ski and Surf and the Denali Adam's !!!
  • bigtex2011bigtex2011 Posts: 521 Crazy Baller
    @craiginshred I think @AdamCord is pretty much dead on. For me, it's about building speed and angle thru the wakes and maintaining pressure outbound.

    once you get this concept 28 will be ur opener and you'll find other fun stuff to work on.

    "you can't beat the game". Sully said it so it's for real

    Bruce Lee can kick Chuck Norris' ass :)
  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,356 Mega Baller
    1) I would not call it load since the creation of load against the boat can lead to being unloaded at the buoy instead of controlling yourself off the second wake. I'm not saying that you aren't creating load, merely that it may not be the best way of thinking about it. There are numerous threads about moving your center of mass accross the wake that describe the idea far better than I can.
    2) I understand what you are saying with explode but I would think of it more as a controlled transition from an acceleratory movement from the buoy to the wake to a gliding movement outbound which translates to height on the boat (width) while maintaining a tight line and the majority of your original speed. If you slow down too much in the glide you will only have to exert energy to regain that speed out of the next buoy, it will be more energy efficient to try and maintain a more constant speed through the course.

    On to your questions
    1) I attempt to build speed from buoy to wake by progressing deeper into my pull and after the centerline I allow the boat to begin to bring me up out of my pull but I keep both my hands on the handle and am not sling shotted up but rather a smooth transition through to my other edge. I am typically on my inside edge as I am getting through the second wake.
    2) Too much speed isn't really a big problem unless you have bad direction. If you allow the boat to unload you and go to the ball too soon then all the speed you generated in the pull has been directed down course and you will be fast and with slack at the ball. Try and keep your handle down at your hips off the second wake and try and carry out bound. At -22 and -28 and many of the lines beyond there is still more than enough time and rope to get around the buoy so don't feel like you need to race to get there.
    3) The key to avoiding too much speed at the ball is to be able to stay away from the buoy, if you pull away from the boat and try to generate speed by playing tug of war you will lose every single time, you will get through the second wake and the boat will immediatly unload you at the bouy. Try and pull accross the wakes by moving your inside shoulder accross rather than against the boat and you will be able to carry outbound easier.
  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,375 Mega Baller
    Apologies in advance, but I just can't help it -

    You never want to explode your load too early.

    Bam. Like that.
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
  • cragginshredcragginshred Posts: 722 Crazy Baller
    @Jimbrake -insightful!
    Vapor pro 2017
  • WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,511 Crazy Baller
    I'm usually that guy that thinks about things differently than the norm so I'm sure there will be people who disagree with me but this is what I worked for me.

    First thing's first... At longer line lengths I'm much more likely to generate more speed outbound than I need which makes me ski the course wide. This sounds good unless you're skiing 5+ ft wide AT the buoy and not before the buoy. I felt like this was more due to inexperience and not knowing how the ski will react after the pull and then compensated by over eagerness in the pull. Once I learned to be a little more aggressive into the buoy, I did run over a few buoys but eventually learned where I needed to be. A lot of this can depend on ski setup as well. If your ski under turns some buoys and over turns others, it's hard to get confident and know how it's going to react and you start skiing defensively.

    Next was learning when to start pulling. At 15off, I felt like the second I was past the ball, it's time to start pulling regardless of where I am. Once I started getting into 28 and 32off, I started realizing that where I started pulling was less relevant and what position my body was in when I started my pull was the biggest factor. You've probably heard people to get yourself set before you start pulling and that's basically the concept here. I'd finish my turn and in my mind it feels like I stop, wait a tick, and right as the boat picks me up, I have the ski out in front of me with good body position ready to be rocketed across the wake.

    When to stop pulling to me is based entirely on where I was in relation to the previous buoy.
  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 2,138 ★★★★Quad Panda Award Recipient ★★★★
    I used to wait for the boat to pick me up, AM told me do not wait for the boat, turn, get position and get going, waiting for the boat cost precious time

    If Only I Was Perfect

  • cragginshredcragginshred Posts: 722 Crazy Baller
    The biggest crux here is the 'transition'I am glad @AdamCord mentioned 'don't just let up' which will lead to getting pulled forward and flat. Rather stay on the handle and as @Jimbrake joked -hold the load. Many would say back arm pressure, others say that sold school. It seems to work for me.
    @RazorRoss3 can you expand on this statement: Try and pull accross the wakes by moving your inside shoulder accross rather than against the boat and you will be able to carry outbound easier.

    Good stuff fellas....skiing tomorrow and my home lake opens in two weeks!
    Vapor pro 2017
  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,356 Mega Baller
    So as a skier you can try and move across the wake by pulling back against the boat, this is like trying to play tug of war. You can't possibly win against the boat and it is what creates the load and then through the wakes you get unloaded at the buoy. The alternative way is like I said above to try and pull across the wakes so that you are pulling in the direction of travel which is more efficient with less load. So a few things
    1) you want your upper body to remain "quiet" with your shoulder and head remaining level, excess movement or dipping with your upper body makes this harder.
    2) I'm not saying you won't be on a pulling edge with your weight behind your ski, there are a number of good threads on stack you may want to look at.
    3) what you want to do is keep your handle connected you your hip and then try to move your shoulder sideways across the wakes, if your stack is right you will carry out with more speed using less effort.

    I hope that helps, otherwise you may have to call on some more talented ballers than myself to better explain the stack and COM topics.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,432 Administrator
    @RazorRoss3 well stated

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Connelly  ★ Basta ★ DBSkis ★ Denali ★ Goode ★ Hobe Lake ★ HO Syndicate ★ MasterCraft

    Masterline ★ McClintock's ★ Performance Ski and Surf ★ Reflex ★ Radar 

    Stella Blue ★ Stokes ★ World WaterSki League


Sign In or Register to comment.