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Do you think there are times when you want to lift your back heal off the ski?

HortonHorton Posts: 30,560 Administrator
edited February 2015 in Technique & Theory
I removed the Advanced Version of this poll to limit confusion

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Do you think there are times when you want to lift your back heal off the ski? 92 votes

Yes I need to or would like to lift my back heel
56%
skibugblockA_BHam_Wallace9400CraigskialexlondonskierDeanoskiJGraycamjammrpreussskinut6ballsBoat030Wishjackskichris_loganTexas6dbski 52 votes
I am not sure
31%
dislandJAGChef23CamcountymountieForrestGumpKelvinAndreMattPGarnToddLjipster43igkyaski4xtcswc5150Razorskier1PatMampacdanOnside135DkLkSkr 29 votes
No I do not want or need to lift my heel
11%
HortontsixamscotchipmanRichardDoaneGAJ0004ralRivvyschaferColeGiacopuzziNiles TaylorShakeski 11 votes
«13

Comments

  • Onside135Onside135 Posts: 443 Crazy Baller
    I am not sure
    I recall seeing pictures of Nate and Andy doing it, so it must be the right thing to do at times!
    mrpreuss
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,560 Administrator

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    Luzz
  • Onside135Onside135 Posts: 443 Crazy Baller
    I am not sure
    Ha...I had read that article (a few months ago...I believe), and I thought it was very good. My comment was mostly in jest and in consideration of that article.

    That being said, aren't an increasing number of higher level skiers utilizing RTP rear bindings at least partly for the increased mobility and to get hips/COM more forward at times? I'm not suggesting that everyone do this, or that I'm going to try it myself, but it may be right at times.

    Forget that I mentioned higher level skiers...if it works at any level at certain times it "could" be the right thing...just not for everyone.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,560 Administrator
    No I do not want or need to lift my heel
    @Onside135 Smith is an example of a skier who has his rear heel off the ski a lot of the time. The catch is you need to have a very advanced foundational skills before you even think about doing what Smith does. I would say if you are not a Level 9 skier you are only going to hurt yourself doing this (please take video).

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  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    I am not sure
    I am RTP. My heel does lift up at times. I don't know if it helps or hurts my scores
    Jim Ross
  • mrpreussmrpreuss Posts: 133 Baller
    Yes I need to or would like to lift my back heel
    I did not realize it until I started ripping the plate off of the ski in the back, especially during real early transitions.
    It happens when I transition at the first wake, as the ski passes the second wake and I roll from edge to neutral. That's when the heel would come up. It started with new velcro. I use a shortie rear hard shell that will release the heel up like a RTP now.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,560 Administrator
    No I do not want or need to lift my heel
    @mrpreuss what line lengths do you ski?

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  • rabrab Posts: 71 Baller
    I am not sure
    For those that have not seen this yet it is a video of Andy Mapple's heel while he skis.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=HsEkXJF3Gwc
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,560 Administrator
    No I do not want or need to lift my heel
    @Razorskier1 where / when?

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  • MISkierMISkier Posts: 3,180 Mega Baller
    Yes I need to or would like to lift my back heel
    I think I must do it, since I ripped the screws through the back of my binding last season and bent the front toe when the heel lifted up. Granted, I wasn't using the proper washers to disperse the load over more aluminum in that slotted area. But, I must be applying some upward pressure back there.


    The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears.
    mrpreussRazorRoss3
  • mrpreussmrpreuss Posts: 133 Baller
    edited February 2015
    Yes I need to or would like to lift my back heel
    @Horton
    I haven't skied as much as I'd want the last few years, but I still run 28-35 skiing no more than 2 (short, 4-6 passes) sets a week. 1 set a month in the winter in skiing months when I ski winters. I skied three sets since July of last year. One a month ago, 40's water 50's air ran 6 - 28's Saturday I skied with Cory in SRB ran 4 28's. The Last set was 2 28's and 1 32 then 5 @ 32 heavy tailwind.
    @OB and myself have a longstanding friendship and rivalry for many years...
    Tournament average was [email protected] first couple years in M3. Since then I only ski for fun but still compete when I feel like it or not enough participants to support skiing
    I can't seem to edit my profile. says multiple people with same email...
    I ski a 67 Prophecy now but only skied maybe 12 - 20 sets the last 3 years since I got it.
    I love that ski...

    Andy's heel comes up a bit on the video above

    Is there a way to search and see what I have posted in the past?

  • countymountiecountymountie Posts: 121 Baller
    I am not sure
    After being told many time, "get your hips up" , "stop skiing off your back foot" and not improving, I am going to focus on keeping my back heel down, back leg straight. My Radar sequence plate (first generation) is all bent up from me subconsciously lifting up my back heel. After moving back to a RTP I noted how much I was lifting it.
  • ozskiozski Posts: 1,715
    Yes I need to or would like to lift my back heel
    The heel lift is never going to be conscious thing. In my case I've had a ton of ankle injuries and my ankle does not flex like it did when I was 20, running my rear boot relaxed allows that little bit of extra freedom and the ankle can lift inside the boot. This is a recent change in my setup and I've grown to like it and set a PB so something is working.
    'Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.'' 2021 MC As soon as it lands Ski - KD Platinum

    Ed_ObermeiermrpreussSkoot1123
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,560 Administrator
    No I do not want or need to lift my heel
    @mrpreuss I ask your skiing level because I often do not know who I am talking to. Turns out we are about the same skiing level.

    You agree that what you describe above is not something you would tell a skier to try to do?

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    mrpreuss
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,560 Administrator
    edited February 2015
    No I do not want or need to lift my heel
    If you click on your user name you will go to a screen with a link to all the comments you have ever made. On the right under Activity.

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  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,819 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited February 2015
    Yes I need to or would like to lift my back heel
    I know that I tend to lift my heel and push hard with the toes sometimes as I am late. I'm sure that is wrong, but it is what I do
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    Yes I need to or would like to lift my back heel
    I ride double Stradas and have since the RS-1 days. I am certain my back heel moves around inside the back boot but of course it's restricted movement. It feels as though more freedom might be of some benefit. After watching Andy Mapples back foot from the GoPro just behind his RTP, it was abundantly clear his heel likes to move around as well
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,560 Administrator
    No I do not want or need to lift my heel
    @Texas6 but you are not Andy : -)

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    Texas6
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,066 Mega Baller
    I am not sure
    I couldn't tell you if I lift my back heel I know I don't consciously do it. I have always skied in a RTP and continue to do so. I don't believe my back heel comes up and it certainly doesn't through the wakes. It probably does move around some though I would think it would be hard for it not to.
    Mark Shaffer
  • mrpreussmrpreuss Posts: 133 Baller
    Yes I need to or would like to lift my back heel
    @Horton
    I would never coach it, however I would suggest all skiers to at least try loosening their rear binding. I skied for 10 or 12 years with what I call technique and it wasn't until I put new velcro on that I realized the huge mistake a clamped down rear heal was... At first I suspected bad Velcro but that was not the case... It was the inability of my heel to lift up... Andy uses a relatively long edge through the wakes which would explain his heel only slightly raising in his transition. It is most apparent when I have a super early transition and hit the second wake or trough that it is very pronounced.
    Horton
  • mrpreussmrpreuss Posts: 133 Baller
    edited February 2015
    Yes I need to or would like to lift my back heel
    @Horton
    check my email please so I can edit my profile.
  • mrpreussmrpreuss Posts: 133 Baller
    Yes I need to or would like to lift my back heel
    for me, activity pulls up all recent stuff by everyone...
  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,263 Mega Baller
    edited February 2015
    I am not sure
    @mrpreuss
    This will show you your comments http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/profile/comments/625/mrpreuss

    You can search them here http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/search Click the arrow on the right side of the search box. Enter your username into the "Author" Line and whatever specific search in the search bar .
    mrpreuss
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,859 Mega Baller
    I am not sure
    There are times (prior to entering the course) that I focus on the balls of my feet. I do NOT lift my heal, but I focus on pressure under the ball of my foot. I guess it may come up just a touch, but I am not trying to make it come up off the foot bed.

    I think heal lift happens as a result vs an intentional action. If a healthy skier is balanced in their stance, there isn't a significant need for any heal lift. However, if a skier is too far forward or stuffs a finish to a turn, I suspect that the rear heal lifts a good bit then.

    To those who posted pics or mentioned damage to their bindings, I have this question? Did you stuff any turns prior to that damage?

    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • MISkierMISkier Posts: 3,180 Mega Baller
    Yes I need to or would like to lift my back heel
    @ToddL, I don't recall any specific turn-stuffing. I do have an issue with not getting my hips up enough, but it hasn't been enough to stop the turns cold. My binding broke pulling through the gates, which is an offside pull for me (LFF). I surmise that the greater stress on my back heel is during that particular direction of pull. I don't know why or if it is right or wrong.
    The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears.
  • MarkMMarkM Posts: 156 Open or Level 9 Skier
    Yes I need to or would like to lift my back heel
    I have an Animal rear with a Venom overlay and never lace it.
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,859 Mega Baller
    I am not sure
    thanks @MISkier. I guess I was thinking that the time of failure, might not be the only instance of stress on the binding... It was just the last time it was stressed.. (ya know, like the lost item was always located in the last place you looked...)
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • MISkierMISkier Posts: 3,180 Mega Baller
    edited February 2015
    Yes I need to or would like to lift my back heel
    @ToddL, that picture I posted was not my only binding failure. I also pulled the back/heel plastic inserts out of a Goode a few years back. That was also on my gate pull. As you said, that point of failure may represent the last point of stress. But, it does seem coincidental. In that other instance, the front screws also gave way and pulled out of the inserts after the heel lifted and the entire binding detached.

    In both cases, I realized the problem, aborted the edge change, released the handle, and glided/wobbled to a stop.
    The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears.
    ToddL
  • mrpreussmrpreuss Posts: 133 Baller
    Yes I need to or would like to lift my back heel

    smalor
  • ToddFToddF Posts: 595 Solid Baller
    Yes I need to or would like to lift my back heel
    I guess this is a big part of my problem, my heel can't touch the unless I am doing a wheelie. Lack of flexibility prevents that. So I guess I am going to have to ski more like Nate and Andy by default. :)
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