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What were the recommendations from the Nationals Task Force?

sunperchsunperch Posts: 278 Crazy Baller
I think the deadline for the recommendations was Feb. 28th.


  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    tried to copy and paste from an MWSA email I got today. too long to type it out.
    Jim Ross
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,473 Mega Baller
    @Razorskier1 you should eb able to do that, or post it on line and paste the link
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 3,245 Mega Baller
    2015 Special Committee Results: Nationals Format

    Call to action: The American Water Ski Association's board of directors held its annual mid-winter board meeting on Jan. 24 with the priority item on the agenda being to increase the skier participation at the GOODE Water Ski National Championships. There was a lengthy discussion of several options ending with the appointment of a special committee of five members to study the details of the discussed proposals and to report to the board with their recommendations by Feb. 28, 2015. (Source:

    Special Committee: Evaluated historical attendance data for nationals, initiated 3 specific skier surveys, took into consideration sponsor desires and brainstormed many ideas in response to the call to action back on Jan. 24th. As a result of the analysis, the summary below outlines the best approach for the long and short term.

    Committee’s Ultimate format for Nationals: Introduce a preliminary and final round concept based on the number of skiers entered (paid) in the event as of noon the day before competition starts. The number of skiers qualified to ski in the final round of an event shall be as shown in the following table.

    Preliminary Round (# of paid skiers in an event) # of skiers in the finals

    0-5 0

    6-9 first 2

    10-14 first 3

    15-19 first 4

    20-24 first 5

    25-29 first 6

    30-34 first 7

    35-39 first 8

    40-44 first 9

    45 or more first 10

    TIMING OF FINALS: The desire would be that finals would occur at the end of the ski day of the day that the preliminary round occurred (depending on when scores are available); otherwise they would occur directly after the given event.



    a. There will no runoffs in the preliminary round for the last spot or any tied spots. Any tie breaker will be determined by seeding; i.e. ties will go to the higher seeded skier.


    a. In the finals if a tie exists for first place, it shall be run off.

    b. If a tie exists for 2nd-5th place, placement shall be decided on the basis of the higher preliminary round score.

    c. If a tie still exists, it shall go to the higher seeded skier.

    AWARDS: Top 5 awards will still be given, if an event has less than 5 in the finals the remaining placement spots will be determined by preliminary scores. The awards would coordinated with the AWSA Celebration Station activities.


    A. Individual overall results shall be calculated on the better score of either the preliminary or the final round for each skier qualified for the individual overall.

    B. Scores obtained in running off a tie shall not count towards overall.

    ENTRY FEES: Entry fees should be increased by $5 for a one event, $10 for two events, $15 for three events. This is required to offset the additional water time to support this format (estimated at 25 hrs. using historical data). Flat $5,000 would funnel to AWSA.

    QUALIFICATIONS: There is an expectation that the skier qualification committee will be evaluating the ranking levels this year (2015) and will submit a recommendation to alter the qualifications for those divisions/events that require it (timing: AWSA summer BOD meeting). Example: Lowering the level 8 qualification where appropriate.


    A. Supports the skier survey results when it comes to alternate formats

    B. Benefits the skiers in the mid-pack as it gives them an additional opportunity to advance and participate in the finals

    C. Adds a venue to gain more fun-fan-fare to those competing for placement

    D. Opportunity to rollout this same approach to regionals

    E. Brings additional revenue through projected new skiers and increased entry fees

    F. With this format, there would be no run offs during the preliminary events so there would not be a substantial increase in pulls overall (example there were 50 run offs in 2014).

    CURRENT CONTRAINTS: In discussing the proposed format, the LOC hosting the 2015 nationals has noted that they cannot afford the reduction in practice as a result of this format. Even with the increased entry fee.

    Motion to the BOD for 2015:

    ACTION ITEM: The special committee would like the BOD to approve a PILOT APPROACH in 2015 using the above format for eight events (equate to <50 additional pulls), without the added entry fee. All other parameters noted above would apply. The eight events that would be used for the pilot are:

    > Slalom - W3-4-5-MW; and

    > Slalom - M3-4-5-MM.

    The pilot approach enables AWSA to prove out the approach and receive feedback that can be used to refine the approach for the future.
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.

  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,249 Mega Baller
    Interesting that they would pilot this program with the largest events at Nationals. Nothing like watching more old people ski at slow speeds all day... Why not with the M/W 1-2 skiers? They are the future of the sport and it could help participation within those divisions if they had the potential of skiing multiple rounds!

    Increasing the entry fee I would assume goes against everyone's response to the surveys. I would love to see the results and stats form the surveys sent out. Are the upped across all events or for the ones with the 2nd final round?

    So the LOC has turned down this proposal?
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,209
    Interesting. I fail to see how this is going to increase the number of entered skiers in a measurable manner. Now, dropping qualifications yes. But not just by adding a finals round.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • WishWish Posts: 8,235 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @ShaneH would this format of a finals bring back skiers? It has peaked my interest.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • liquid dliquid d Posts: 1,320 Mega Baller
    Like a mini tour-stop. Works for the Big will bring more interest to the men 3-5...the money machine.
    Doesn't help bring the younguns in to Nationals....maybe we should outlaw Lacrosse. stupid game.
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,473 Mega Baller
    Seems to me they kicked the can down the road and agree to look at changing qualifications later for divisions "that need it" while not explaining what that means.
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • The_MSThe_MS Posts: 6,131 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    Its only 10 guys.
    Shut up and ski
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,063 Mega Baller
    edited March 2015
    @liquid d interesting comment on lacrosse that is what has reduced our skiing. My son loves them both but there are a lot more opportunities to play lacrosse in college than ski and lacrosse can help leverage into a school. Skiing doesn't seem to have that same opportunity. My son has competed at Nationals 2 of last 4 years but we likely won't be going for the next 3 or 4 years.
    Mark Shaffer
  • MillerTime38MillerTime38 Posts: 384 Crazy Baller
    So the Big Dawgs will get to ski another round at Nationals. I cannot wait to see more people skiing old man speed
  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,249 Mega Baller
    @OB just because a M/W 1-2 skier can't afford some of those things does not mean that they don't deserve another round at Nationals. It's not a reward for the old money bags.
  • MillerTime38MillerTime38 Posts: 384 Crazy Baller
    @OB the Big Dawg tour is there to reward you "Big Spenders" for your financial contribution to the sport. The goal was to increase participation to the Nationals as a whole, not just for the deep pockets. By the way M3 had 31 skiers to M2 24 skiers and M1 25 skiers and look at the scores for the Winners, 116 for M1 110 for M2 and 104 for M3.

    Lump the M3 skiers with the Men 4 skiers and lump the M1 and M2 skiers together. Then you take the top X from those combined groups to a finals. You still have the same amount of skiers getting a second round and you are also opening it up to include more divisions. You can do similarly with the womens divisions. Even though I am just a poor M2 skier, I have attended 4 of the last 5 nationals so I have done my part to support the tournament and will continue to do so no matter what format is in place.
    [Deleted User]
  • DirtDirt Posts: 1,677 Open or Level 9 Skier
    It is good to see the organization testing new ideas and formats. I would like to see two rounds for all of the skiers. Eliminating the Regionals requirement would be huge.
    I learned everything I know not to do from Horton
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,473 Mega Baller
    @klindy I am confused. Bob M told us that WPB said they could support 1000 skiers. Now they are backing off saying they need more practice time. Why the inconsistency?
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • schaferschafer Posts: 320 Solid Baller
    I think WSWC could take some notes from this proposal as well. IMO the Canadian nationals have a lot of the same complaints from a skiers standpoint. Too much money and travel for one round. Although we don't have the regional requirement. But I know there would be a significant increase in my division (mens) which is a combined M1 and M2 age group south of the border. Pulling 5-10 skiers in each division for a second round will definitely add a day or 2 to the tournament is the downside. But I think the pros outweigh the cons.
    Quest for the Purple Loop
  • GKGK Posts: 138 Baller
    I too like that the committee is at least working on making the event better. I see these changes helping to bring in more skiers from the top of each division (which is good and what I think Nationals should be about). I don't however think this encourages the skiers in the "mid-pack" as they state. I see little chance of those mid-pack skiers making the finals and even if they do ski out of their mind and make the finals, now they have to do it again to have a shot at placing. I'm guessing this new format is an advantage to the top seeds because they are ultimately going to be the most consistent. If they slip up in Round 1 and drop a couple spots they can get back on their game in the finals. I'm not against the proposal but I don't see it increasing the overall numbers at Nationals. I do however think it will make Nationals a little more exciting for the top 30% in each division who have a shot at the finals.
    Greg Kuenning - Cincinnati, OH
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