Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

______________
12" White Stickers
______________
BallOfSpray $5 Donation
______________
BallOfSpray $10 Donation

Nationals should be reduced to class C and use volunteer officials

dislanddisland Posts: 1,473 Mega Baller
edited March 2015 in Rules/Politics/Issues
Goal is to reduce costs of hotel rooms and golf carts thereby taking pressure off having to get more skiers to attend. Spend the money on more parties and festival events like live bands.
Dave Island- Princeton Lakes

Nationals should be reduced to class C and use volunteer officials 28 votes

Good idea
71%
HortonskidawgscotchipmandislandChef23Rpc29LeonL9400AndreAdamCordMattPjdarwinskiinxs6ballsIlivetoskiMichaelGoodmanjcampbigtex2011E_TMillerTime38 20 votes
Bad idea
28%
animalBruce_ButterfieldsantangeloBbrandauJoeMacThe_MSBRYdrewski32 8 votes

Comments

  • animalanimal Posts: 96 Baller
    Bad idea
    I like the idea of volunteer officials. Nationals typically has lots of regular and senior officials on site who do nothing because they were not appointed or asked to contribute. Still run the event as record but stop all the subsidies for the officials who are probably going to be there anyway with the exception of chief appointments who require week plus commitments.
    E_T
  • The_MSThe_MS Posts: 6,131 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    Bad idea
    Offer discount for Sr working officials.
    Shut up and ski
    Horton9400
  • MillerTime38MillerTime38 Posts: 384 Crazy Baller
    Good idea
    I hear eveyone say the biggest expenses for the LOC is the officiating cost and I also hear people say how much work is involved with setting up the equipment like cameras and monitors to meet the Record tourney requirements. Making it a class C will reduce the cost for officiating and save the LOC time and resources needed to make the site record capable. You could even give the LOC the option of running as a C or Record.

  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,249 Mega Baller
    edited March 2015
    Good idea
    Someone will still be crowned champion. The officiating and driving will still be high end and the LOC will save money and time. Sounds like a win win to me.

    @MS Sr. Working officials have to pay that enormous entry as well as giving up their time? Ridiculous.
    The_MS
  • BRYBRY Posts: 585 Crazy Baller
    Bad idea
    Ah, dude, the officials are volunteer. They aren't doing it as a profession and certainly could be making a lot more doing what the really do. Many are skiers, many are not.

    It needs to be a record.

    Golf carts? Really? Is that a major expense? Ha! Lots (most?) of C's I have gone to have carts. Some have crappy shorelines so pick up skiers, some save time getting the judge(s) (in class C and most R's also a skier usually) to the far tower. At most sites that far tower is a long, long walk.
    The_MS
  • MillerTime38MillerTime38 Posts: 384 Crazy Baller
    Good idea
    @Bry why does it need to be a record?
  • The_MSThe_MS Posts: 6,131 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    edited March 2015
    Bad idea
    Aspiring regular officials looking for advancement are forced to work both Reg and Nats. Pare them with the discounted Sr Officials and you only need to have a Chief that can organize it all.
    Keep it an E/R event so records can go down.
    Shut up and ski
    BRY
  • ntxntx Posts: 838 Crazy Baller
    Lower to class C only if the requirements for some of the elite tournaments remove the class ELR score requirement. For example..... Now, in order to qualify for some Jr tournaments like team trials and Jr US Open, you need to submit scores from class ELR. Outside of Florida there are not a ton of that type of tournaments.
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,473 Mega Baller
    Good idea
    @bry seriously last time I looked at the contract golf carts was the second biggest expense. They wanted like 20 of them for a week. Thats not cheap
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • BRYBRY Posts: 585 Crazy Baller
    Bad idea
    @MillerTime38 "why does it need to be a record?" Could also ask why does any tournament need to be a record? This should be our premier tournament. Scores should be able to be applied to international competitions, it's our countries champions. Record performances on the biggest stage with the deepest field should count as records. To set a record and Nat's, to me, is a huge accomplishment and should go in the books.

    You also say "I also hear people say how much work is involved with setting up the equipment like cameras and monitors to meet the Record tourney requirements." Valid point. However, the resources expended per lake (time and money) is a sunk cost, same for a one day record, two day record or a 5 day Nationals. Lots of sites pull off 1 and 2 day records. The Nat's return on the investment is 5 times what a 1 day return is. And you then have the infrastructure (paid for) going forward for future events.
    klindyBruce_ButterfieldThe_MS
  • BRYBRY Posts: 585 Crazy Baller
    Bad idea
    @disland As you have seen a/the contract for Nationals you have better and more detailed information than I. I am going by my experience from skiing tournaments, helping with R's and putting on a few C's. 20 seems like a lot of them though. At a 5 lake site like Okee that's 4 per lake, though I see the need for carts there. It is a long, long way to some of the lakes. Really helps keep everything on track getting resources (officials, tech's, replacement parts) around the site as quick as possible.
  • santangelosantangelo Posts: 192 Solid Baller
    Bad idea
    Makes about as much sense to me as counting class C scores in AWSA Elite rankings list. This is supposed to be an event with the highest standards the governing body offers to see who is the best skier that day. I don't see reducing the scrutiny of judging as an acceptable trade-off to get more skiers to attend Nationals.
  • MillerTime38MillerTime38 Posts: 384 Crazy Baller
    Good idea
    @Bry you are missing the point here. We are getting to the point where NO ONE wants to host the National tournament because there is no upside. It is a ton of work and resources for no return. All I have read is your rebuttal to everyone's idea, how do you propose we make hosting Nationals more appealing to more sites?
    MattPE_T
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,412 Administrator
    edited March 2015
    Good idea
    I am sorry I even voted in this poll. All the conversions about Nationals have clarified for me how little it means to me anymore.

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Barts★ Connelly ★ DBSkis ★ Denali ★ Goode ★ Follow ★ Hobe Lake ★ MasterCraft ★ Masterline ★ 

    McClintock's ★ Performance Ski and Surf ★ Reflex ★ Radar ★ Rodics OffCourseStokes

    E_T
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,063 Mega Baller
    Good idea
    @Horton that doesn't mean you don't have an opinion.

    I don't see the issue with having it as a Class C if it saves a bunch of money. I don't see that this changes attendance though. When going to Nationals the least of my concerns is the entry fee given that I need airfare for two people, a rental car, hotel rooms, meals etc. The few hunderd dollars it costs to enter the tournament is a small component of the expense and not a decision point.
    Mark Shaffer
    Horton
  • klindyklindy Posts: 2,616 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Ironically the list of skiers (age groups) wanting their division/event to be class L grows every year or so. Now that IWWF has multiple age groups for various World events lots more skiers need the class L score.
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Chairman of the Board
    AWSA Southern Region EVP
    Bruce_ButterfieldHorton
  • ALPJrALPJr Posts: 2,426 Mega Baller
    I would not want to see volunteer officials working the March Madness NCAA basketball tournament games. I don't think it would be a good idea for regional or national level ski tourneys either.
  • BRYBRY Posts: 585 Crazy Baller
    Bad idea
    @MillerTime38 Dude, relax.
    I didn't miss the point. There was a poll (which functionally is asking for a response) and I answered what the poll specifically asked directly. I think my opinion on the matter is valid. My mind (and others) can be swayed/changed by reasonable, thought out arguments.

    You state "We are getting to the point where NO ONE wants to host the National tournament because there is no upside. It is a ton of work and resources for no return". A very valid point of view. That was not in the poll or any of the responses. The poll asks about going to a Class C Nat's and shifting said savings to parties and festival events. IMHO that is a bad idea.

    "We are getting to the point where NO ONE wants to host the National tournament because there is no upside. It is a ton of work and resources for no return". Is a statement worthy of it's own thread. Worthy of discussion on if it is wholly or partly true, why that is and from that an actual solution may come. Your statement, put up the thread.
Sign In or Register to comment.