Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

______________
12" White Stickers
______________
BallOfSpray $5 Donation
______________
BallOfSpray $10 Donation

Perfect Pass -- will new GPS-based "Simple Slalom" mode work well enough for me?

TallSkinnyGuyTallSkinnyGuy Posts: 543 Crazy Baller
I am planning on getting Perfect Pass for my 1997 MC 190 within the next month and am trying to figure out which version would be best for me. The main issue is whether the Wake Edition will suffice or if I need to spend the extra $200 on 3-event. The latest version of Wake Edition includes what PP calls "Simple Slalom" which is described in the manual as "A new simple-to-use GPS Slalom mode for up to 28 off." I'm not positive, but I think this GPS version of Simple Slalom was new last year with software version 8.05.

This same Simple Slalom is also one of the slalom modes available in the 3-event version, along with GPS Slalom, Practice Slalom and Classic Slalom. All but the Simple Slalom mode require calibration to match speeds with RPMs. Simple Slalom requires no calibration, but you can map a slalom course and it will give you 3-ball and full course times.

With the information I have now it seems like the Simple Slalom mode that I can get with the less costly Wake Edition would be enough for me. PP in my boat will be used for free skiing and periodically in a course (I'm planning on buying a portable later this year). It is unlikely that I will ever pull someone through a course at shorter than 28 off and neither I nor my friends are likely to ever compete.

So, as I said, it sounds like the Simple Slalom mode will be enough for me but I wanted to check with any of you who might have experience with this mode to find out from your first-hand experience if it works okay. Thanks for your advice.
«1

Comments

  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,975 Infinite Pandas
    If the Wake edition doesn't have a paddlewheel get the 3 event version regardless. A paddlewheel will make the pull much better for the tricks and wakeboarding. The boat is worth the extra and your skills are likely to require the best pull. PP is magic, get the best magic.
    Eric
  • ShakeskiShakeski Posts: 119 Baller
    +1 for 3-event version.
  • MISkierMISkier Posts: 2,785 Mega Baller
    I don't think they sell a new 3-event system that uses a paddlewheel. I think they eliminated it, due to the many issues with it.

    http://www.perfectpass.com/?q=faq

    I don't think it is needed anymore.
    The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears.
    rockdogscotchipman
  • DanEDanE Posts: 902 Crazy Baller
    edited April 2015
    Get the 3 event, slalom course skiing is extremely addictive
    You never know how far down the rope you will end up.
    Than_BoganRichardDoanejimskiSki_Dad
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,975 Infinite Pandas
    @MISkier I hope they haven't gotten rid of the paddlewheel. I have yet to get an acceptable ride on PP without the paddlewheel regardless of what satellite system is installed. It's still needed for me. I haven't heard of an accelerometer based PP yet.
    Eric
  • MISkierMISkier Posts: 2,785 Mega Baller
    ZBox has an accelerometer, I believe.
    The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears.
  • TallSkinnyGuyTallSkinnyGuy Posts: 543 Crazy Baller
    Earlier today after I received initial responses encouraging my use of the 3-event version I emailed Perfect Pass and asked if one could calibrate the slalom speeds in the 3-event version without a slalom course (I could not find any instructions on calibrating the slalom modes without a course). Aaron, one of their engineers, responded within a couple hours and told me that if I had the 3-event version but no slalom course in which to calibrate I should just use the Simple Slalom mode since it does not require calibration. So it sounds like the 3-event version would be worthless to me until I get a course.

    eleeski and MISkier -- My understanding is that the paddlewheel is no longer available and that the main component to make Z-box different than regular Stargazer is the addition of an accelerometer.
  • skiboynyskiboyny Posts: 231 Baller
    @TallSkinnyGuy You can calibrate the slalom speeds in the 3-event system without a course. I can't remember the name of the feature in stargazer,and my manual is in the boat under wraps I'll try to dig it out. Anyway once it's in GPS it's pretty rock solid on open water. Perfect pass was supposed to release a version in the 3 event system that didn't require calibrate much like the simple slalom. Was supposed to be around the first of this year. I haven't heard any more about it. I know it was in testing late last summer. You might want to ask Aaron if it's due out any time soon. That would solve all your problems should you get a course.
    MISkier
  • rockdogrockdog Posts: 587 Crazy Baller
    Yes absolutely you can calibrate without a course, the 'capture method'. Works fine, get the video off their website. I had initially set mine up this way and had no problem with it.
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,975 Infinite Pandas
    Perfect Pass is an obsolete system for obsolete boats. Harsh? No, because it can work wonderfully. Still you want the best options available. You are saving a ton by going older so don't scrimp on what you need to get your boat as close to the new boats as possible.

    The paddlewheel is a critical option. It is still supported on their website and still recommended for skiing in currents. I have not tricked Zbox without a paddlewheel. The Zbox slalom rides from a couple years ago weren't close to ZO. Maybe it's better now but I didn't buy it at the time. I did buy PP classic 3 event with the paddlewheel and the switch. I can simulate ZO and give consistent quality pulls with that.

    Stan's 08 MC has both ZO and Stargazer. I hated Stargazer for slalom (used it a lot because I drew a Stargazer boat at Regionals and Nationals). The paddlewheel Stargazer felt fine for tricks. Best part was that the speed was always properly calibrated.

    I've installed a few paddlewheels. Followed the directions and never had a leak, broken hull or even a damaged wheel. It's an improvement to the boat.

    I wish someone from PP would chime in with the current data. My experiences are a few years old. I loved PP. I now love ZO. But my 11 MC is as obsolete as my 79 American Skier. I might make the old boat my first string boat. If so the PP options will become important to me.

    Eric
  • TallSkinnyGuyTallSkinnyGuy Posts: 543 Crazy Baller
    @rockdog I just watched the videos and looked through the manual again and there is nothing about calibrating without a course. However, I suppose you could map a virtual course by just throwing an anchored buoy in the water and using that as the entrance gate (my understanding is that it only takes a GPS point on the entrance gate). Maybe throw another buoy in the water about 800 feet away to aim for and help keep the boat straight as if in a course.

    I will probably never ski behind a ZO boat and if I do it will certainly not be in a competition since I will never be entering one. I have absolutely no need for my boat to be as close to the new boats as possible -- I just want to improve the experience for both the driver and skier with a speed control device.

    I didn't save a ton by getting an older boat -- I maxed out my budget and got the newest boat I could with the money I had available. So, I didn't save any money, but rather I spent less than someone who can afford a newer boat. I would also like to spend less on my PP upgrade if the lower priced option will provide all the benefit I need. That is why I posed my original question.

    If the "Simple Slalom" mode is junk and won't provide a consistent pull through a course for 28-off and longer as implied by the PP people, then I will spend more and get the 3-event. But I don't like spending more money for features or benefits that will provide little additional value to me.
  • brodybrody Posts: 311 Baller
    When I installed my stargazer, our course wasn't in yet. I used the capture mode to calibrate it and it was fine. Once our course was out I. I then calibrated it in the course. So yes there is a non course calibration setting
  • rockdogrockdog Posts: 587 Crazy Baller
    @TallSkinnyGuy sorry it used to be on there, I downloaded it off there. It will likely still be on Youtube if you search on there.
  • TallSkinnyGuyTallSkinnyGuy Posts: 543 Crazy Baller
    Thanks brody and rockdog. Good to know.
  • StejcraftbenStejcraftben Posts: 58 Baller
    I have the wake edition and use simple slalom. I do not like it all in the course but open water it's fine. I havnt tried rpm mode in the course but it might be better. When I pull out and go through my gates it speeds up to 60-61kph, it then slows down and sometimes speeds back up. I havnt mapped a course and I won't bother as I'll up grade to 3 event. The pull also feels really soft. I thought The wake edition would keep me happy but no such luck.
  • davemacdavemac Posts: 451 Baller
    try this... https://youtube.com/watch?v=cf7lm0iRcS0
    This is the method I used to calibrate in open water. Perfect Pass has a whole series of these videos.
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,975 Infinite Pandas
    @TallSkinnyGuy You're here and engaged. Obviously waterskiing is a passion. ZO has dominated the new market because it really is a good system. You do want to emulate that system with PP.

    I understand budget constraints. But I bet your learning curve will be steep. You might surprise yourself with just how soon you get a portable course or get a membership on a private lake. You will need the full PP then. It's not a huge investment now compared to the boat. You will advance faster and farther - and you won't have to upgrade again later. Until you MUST have that new boat!

    Eric
  • TallSkinnyGuyTallSkinnyGuy Posts: 543 Crazy Baller
    @eleeski I am glad my wife does not read this forum. Your comments would freak her out.
    Fast351
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,496 Mega Baller
    edited April 2015
    Well, since the change from what he wants to buy to the 3 event is just a software upgrade - what is the downside to starting with the lesser priced unit? Is the software upgrade significantly more than the $200 price difference? And if he decides to go to z-box, it looks like it doesn't matter which of the 2 options you have? (So the overall price is cheaper if you go that far?)


    7. Q. We like to Wakeboard and run in a Slalom coure but are not serious competetive skiers and do not care to time our passes. Which system is right for us?
    The Star Gazer Wake Edition has a great slalom mode that is GPS enhanced and very simple to use. This system does it all except course timing.

    8. Q. If we buy a Star Gazer Wake Edition but in a few years my kids want to start skiing competitively, what is involved in upgrading to the Three-Event Edition?
    In most cases you can purchase a Software Update Stick, and download the Three-Event software yourself.
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,975 Infinite Pandas
    Get her skiing and she'll be pushing for the new boat on your new house on the ski lake!

    Eric
  • DWDW Posts: 2,115 Mega Baller
    @TallSkinnyGuy: you actually have some additional options to throw in your decision matrix. You can scour ski-it-again or Great Lakes Skipper and pick up a used or new in box but old version PP unit and save some $. If you look at the GLS site, you might find the PP unit that was installed as a factory option in your boat. An older classic unit for example, would allow all the features although would most likely require a paddlewheel unit install if a pre GPS version. Not a big deal and they are actually very reliable and accurate. Downside to classic to get course times, you will need magnets, may or may not be a concern to you. Upside, you just saved a significant amount of $ and all PP systems are upgradeable as noted by OldJeep when funds are available.

    Scroll through all the available manuals, there are instructions on how to calibrate a system with and without access to a course. A simple method is simply using a hand held GPS and then entering the correct RPM value for that speed.
    oldjeep
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,496 Mega Baller
    If looking at used ones just make sure you get something with the multiline display. You cannot get any upgrades for the older single line display systems without replacing the entire display and sometimes the control box.
    We just swapped a display on an 04 LXI last year because the old display was having issues, and even going from an old multi-line to new multi-line required a control chip swap - PP was short on chips and actually provided a new control module for the same price.
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • Bill22Bill22 Posts: 1,685 Mega Baller
    @DW many of those new old stock are for throttle by wire and not servo control for a '97 boat. I have looked for a servo type classic PP for one of my friends. They are not as easy to find as you think. If you do find one they are not that much less than a Star Gazer system.

    I have PP classic w/ paddle wheel . My 2 cents is +1 for PP with GPS (star gazer wake/ 3-event/ z-box) and not classic. I say, not the classic b/c like @eleeski said the price of PP is small compared to the price of a new or new-used boat, so get what you want.

    I vote against classic b/c. I am a recreational skier (hooked on chasing buoys but don't ski tournaments). We ski a portable course without magnets and I never know if our times/speeds are correct. To make sure boat speed is in the ball park we have been using a cell with GPS or a garmin. So get a PP w/ GPS and forget it.

    As for the paddle wheel, if you're not a tricker like eleeski, who needs it? PP told me it is only accurate up to around 22-24mph (can't remember the exact speed but slow). I would not cut a hole in my boat when I could spend $200-300 more for Star Gazer.

    PS: I know I can get the timer switch to calibrate classic PP in the course without magnets. I just have not ordered it yet.
    MISkierfoxriveratEd_Obermeier
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,975 Infinite Pandas
    Not just tricks but wakeboarding, kneeboarding, surfing and kids speed need the accuracy that the paddlewheel offers. Drill the hole in the boat - it should increase the value of the boat (at least you would be able to install the temp sensor there if the paddlewheel gets obsolete).

    Stargazer is a good choice to start with. When you get serious enough you can add magnets and dial in Classic mode with the switch to make it feel exactly like ZO. With the right system your wife will get engaged too.

    Eric
  • Bill22Bill22 Posts: 1,685 Mega Baller
    I wish we had videos from basics to advanced level on each system (classic / Star Gazer / Z box). I know it is an old system but a lot of us still use it.
  • foxriveratfoxriverat Posts: 550 Crazy Baller
    @Bill22 You got that right about finding a old or used one. Ive been looking for 2 years for my 96 supra ts6m. You can get a better price if your a USA waterski memeber at skier to skier. A guy on here a little while back said he called perfect pass for him and two of his buddies. And he sounded like they gave him an unbelievable deal. I wonder if we could get a group buy through perfect pass?
    2000 Malibu Response LX 2019 65 HO Syndicate Omni Vapor Bindings
  • foxriveratfoxriverat Posts: 550 Crazy Baller
    2000 Malibu Response LX 2019 65 HO Syndicate Omni Vapor Bindings
  • TallSkinnyGuyTallSkinnyGuy Posts: 543 Crazy Baller
    I could be convinced to pull the trigger now if I could get in on a discounted group buy.
  • Bill22Bill22 Posts: 1,685 Mega Baller
    @foxriverat yes, I remember that discussion, I logged it in the back of my mind. If the price is right count me in. We can start a new discussion to look for 1-2 more buyers.

    I have no problem with the pull of PP classic but both of my speedometers are broke and I want Star Gazer for the GPS speedometer and bigger display.
  • OldManRiverOldManRiver Posts: 6 Baller
    I would be in for a group buy as well. Time to get a PP in my Malibu Echelon.
Sign In or Register to comment.