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Next few tricks to learn

arigold22arigold22 Posts: 47 Baller
I am a progressing trick skier who is wondering what tricks to tackle next. I am 22 years old, 6', 180lbs riding a 43" D3 CX LFF and have been tricking for almost 3 years now (mostly collegiate). Tricks I have down so far SS, R, B, F, RB, RF, O, R, WB, WF, RWB, RWF, hand pass WO, WBB, R, Heelside Backflip (sketchy but can ride it out every once in a while), TB, TF, TS. I've been trying other flips, ski-line B, TO, W5F and B. I just am not sure what the best couple tricks to focus on. And since I'm not skiing with a coach I have to basically teach myself. Any help would be appreciated!


  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 3,131 Mega Baller
    edited June 2015
    Hey Trick skiing!! Dont get much of that here. @arigold22 very cool. If you can as you are a big fella you might see if you can borrow a 44" ski to try, you might be surprised on how much easier it is to learn new tricks. How fast do you ski on hands and how fast on toes? as far as new ricks to learn, get that W5 down and wake flip back to front is pretty easy once you have back flips both directions. Reverse toe slide and of course reverse toe back. once you have reverse toe back a whole new door will open.
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.

  • arigold22arigold22 Posts: 47 Baller
    @Jody_Seal I usually ski at 18.5 for both hands and toes but I've been speeding up to 18.8 for hands. Which way is best to learn the W5? I've got a really solid high WO but when I try for the 5 I stall out once I've completed the 360 rotation. I definitely need to get the RTB down but I here its a tough one to learn. But I guess thats how most tricks are after the basic 660 run.
  • klindyklindy Posts: 2,578 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    RTB pull the rope in low and slow. When it's all the way in and you turn backward, think about "sitting in a chair". That body position will help get into and out of the RTB. Don't try to hold it, just move slowly into it and try to control coming out of it.

    For the W5 it sounds like you're working on a W5B. Typically the W5F is easier. Assuming you can hold the back wrap position start in the 'easy back' position outside the wake. Strong long pull all the way to the top of the wake. Make sure you wait for the top of the wake before you rotate. The key is advancing on the rope and staying on axis.
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Chairman of the Board
    AWSA Southern Region EVP
  • arigold22arigold22 Posts: 47 Baller
    @klindy I have also worked on the W5F and I can always get the rotation but have a tough time keeping the rope in. I always end up hips back and bent at the waist.
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,060 Mega Baller
    @eleeski and @Horton (even though he doesn't like to admit it) know more about tricks than most here. I am sure they will have some advice. You are well beyond the 1300 points I can run.
    Mark Shaffer
  • klindyklindy Posts: 2,578 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @arigold22 thats why I emphasized advancing on the boat for the W5F. Perhaps reach a bit farther forward with your 'free hand' on the rope and make sure you pull it in all the way to your hip. Long, solid pull not a quick jerk.
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Chairman of the Board
    AWSA Southern Region EVP
  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 1,824 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    W5F is definitely the first of the 5 series to learn. For a lefty, start outside the left wake in a backwrap, edge in and do a WBB landing backwards with both hands behind your back (not reverse backwrap), pause, then turn front in the same direction. Gradually shorten the pause and you will be doing the W5F in short order.

    If you are only doing TB, TF, TS, the next trick is TWB and TWF and RTS. After that, TO (very slow with a pause in the TB position, then TF) TWO and TO wrap in.

    RTB can be very hard to learn. I was just a little older than you when I learned it and it took a year and half to learn. You need a good coach for that one.
    I'm Ancient. WTH do I know?
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,977 Infinite Pandas
    Cool! Someone posting who wants to trick.

    Some good advice here. Go ski with Camilo, Cory, Bennetts, Rhoni, Travers, Bel Aqua (with Chris DeVito), @Nason, Stan or any ski school with strong trick credentials. You don't have to live there - just get some direction a couple of times.

    Note that you get in the game with your hand pass - but you win with your toe pass. Spend at least as much time toe tricking as on hand tricks.

    Also spend a significant portion of your run just playing. Big wake jumps, slack pulls, hard cuts, grabs, slalom pulls, double ups, different versions of tricks (learn the wrapped WO), endless side slides, clown acts - anything fun. The tricks will happen.

  • andjulesandjules Posts: 843 Mega Baller
    @arigold22 I think some previous posters are hinting at it, but at the risk of being indelicate, I'll say it straight up: your toes are way behind your hands. But you already knew that.

    First off: you're doing great, and a lot of exciting stuff will be opening up for you with your hand tricks.

    But: toes toes toes.
    I realize that it can get frustrating getting the harness on, doing TB-TF and then trying something and falling. So, every time you get the harness on, do TB-TF 5 or 10 times, really paying attention to rope control, and where the weight is on your ski foot (ball of your foot in the front position; just a touch of weight on your heel in the back position). On dry land, practice flexing your ankle forward while standing on one foot to build your endurance.

    Stay at it.
    TWB-TWF are next, but once you get RTB, TO and (eventually) TO wrap-in, a whole world opens up.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,004 Administrator
    What is tricks?

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  • arigold22arigold22 Posts: 47 Baller
    @klindy and @Bruce_Butterfield thanks for the advice. I will focus on what you guys said and let you know how it goes.
  • arigold22arigold22 Posts: 47 Baller
    @andjules and @eleeski I agree I need to focus a ton on toes. I have mostly been a collegiate tricker and only get one pass so I hadn't spent any time on toes until the end of last summer. Do you guys have any advice or drills for getting very comfortable in the toehold and riding on the ski while in the toehold? I can ride out almost any hand trick even in poor position because I am super comfortable on the ski but as soon as I put my foot in the toehold its a whole new world. Anytime i get out of position at all I seem to fall back or slip out.
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,854 Mega Baller
    Tricks are for kids! Glad I still think I'm one...

    @mlusa Russell, I seem to always fatigue so much sooner on toes. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on posture and effort.

    How fast should the boat be going for toes. I'm a little shorter and a little heavier (190) than @arigold22, and I only have the boat at 17.8 on 43.5" trick. Should I speed it up? He's at 18.5. Is that more like it?

    @Bruce_Butterfield - thanks for the toe trick progression... I had tried to learn RTS before TWB. Maybe I need to focus more on TWB, TWF. I tried to put the harness on in the TWO position and was a little freaked out first time. I need to do some dry land work with that first...
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • arigold22arigold22 Posts: 47 Baller
    I have the same question as @ToddL. What is a good speed for hand and toe tricks? I've always just gone 18.5 but have been trying to speed it up a bit (18.8) on hands to help a bit with flips.
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,060 Mega Baller
    @ToddL TWB and TWF are much easier than RTS and for my money easier than TS. If you can do TB, TF and TS you should be able to add TWB and TWF pretty quick. With my son he would go outside the wake do a TB then do TWF into the wake and try TWB going out. Pretty quickly he got to doing TWB going out and TWF coming in.

    I found TWB easier to learn my son found TWF easier. The big key for those tricks for me is to wait for the lift of the wake. For TWB keep the rope in close and I found trying to keep the rope knee in close to my other leg on the landing helped. For TWF keep the rope knee high with your foot in close to your body. A cheat that worked for me on TWF was to reach down for the handle on landing to make sure I didn't fall back.

    I am not nearly as good as most of the people giving advice hear so if they contradict something I said I would listen to them.
    Mark Shaffer
  • mlusamlusa Posts: 34 Water Ski Industry Professional
    @ToddL I'm 150lbs and on a 42" ski and go 19.1mph. Boat speed is dependent on size and ability. You should definitely try to raising the speed slowly. Over time, try to get your speed up at least 1 mph. I am on a 43" ski for hands and I'm at 19.3mph. Again, speed is based on size and ability. Just because you are bigger, doesn't necessarily mean you will be able to handle a faster speed. These are guidelines to work up towards. Do it slowly. You can't just go up 2 miles/hr. A third factor of speed is rope length. The longer the rope, the slower the boat feels.
  • arigold22arigold22 Posts: 47 Baller
    Thank you @mlusa! I will focus on the things you mentioned and hopefully my toes will take off quickly this season!
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