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35 Off Gate Help

Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
edited August 2015 in Videos, Photos & Media
I could use some video coaching here. This is a video of an obviously bad 35 off gate and one ball. This is a very common occurrence for me at 35 off (sometimes I get it right, but this happens too often), and I realize this pass was over at one ball. I can get away with it at 32, but not at 35. To me it looks as though I get high enough on the boat (I could go a bit higher), I get up on my front foot to initiate the turn in, but that I don't generate enough angle to one ball? Perhaps let my arms out a bit to initiate the turn in toward the gates to help get the ski come around more? Your help is very much appreciated.


Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***

Comments

  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,326 Mega Baller
    edited August 2015
    @Texas6 - I'm only replying because I'm LFF and also working on/experimenting with my gate at 35. Others much more dialed at 35 and shorter will hopefully chime in. You're not as up on your front foot as you may think during your glide and as soon as you begin to turn in for the gate you're definitely not on your front foot very much. Get up there with like 70% or more of your weight on your front foot, then STAY there as you turn in. As a lefty that will help your ski turn into good angle for the gate. Next, your arms are bent as you begin your lean into the gates - this only holds you up off the water. Straighten your arms and let the handle go low, but close to your left thigh and hip. This will get you into a stronger position by the first white water and centerline. I'd just focus on these for a set or more and see if they help. Only thing I might add to the above is as you begin to turn in, don't rotate your upper body. Just let your right shoulder and hip lead the way toward the gate. The ski will turn (like crazy). Your rotation doesn't help it turn. Good luck fellow LFF'r.
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
    MattPTexas6MarcoNason
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,506 Mega Baller
    I think there is something wrong with that video. Did you let youtube do its motion "fixing" thing? That completely messes with very dynamic scenes like slalom.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
    Texas6
  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,012 Mega Baller
    @Texas6 I know it takes a lot of guts to post video and ask for help!!
    I think your weight in your glide could definitely be more balanced over your feet. I think a less intense longer pullout might help you stay more balanced and in control. As for the gate you need to be way higher up on the boat( hard to tell without the boat in the frame). I think you got decently wide but drifted way back before you initiated the turn in. The second you checked your speed by rolling onto your back foot you almost guaranteed a poor gate because you went from your outside edge to flat ski to inside edge to flat ski to outside edge then rolled in for your gate. All of that movement is lost speed and height on the boat. I think the lack of angle through the gate is a result of lost speed in the glide and turn in. I think making just a few slight adjustments to your gate and you will have that pass in the bag! Keep at it and lets see what the other ballers think!

    Do you have video of the previous passes?
    Texas6webbdawg99
  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,012 Mega Baller
    @jimbrake good points about the handle and arm positions. As a fellow LFF & working on 35 myself these are all good things I should be thinking and working on as well.
    Texas6
  • LuzzLuzz Posts: 348 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    I agree pretty much with all that has been said. @Texas6, try to slow down the transition between pull out and glide. It seems like your ski gets in front of you after the pull out and THEN you use your arms to correct your balance.
    If you take a look at this video of Dane Mechler, you can see he has his arms in a strange, bend position, yet that doesn't affect is balance at all. That's because he is on top of his ski during the pull out and transitions out of it gradually, which allows him to keep that balance. I am posting this because I think he has the best LFF two-handed gate in the business.
    Host of The Water Ski Podcast
    Organizer of the San Gervasio Pro Am (recap videos from 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, and 2014)
    Co-organizer of the Jolly Clinics
    See what I am up to on Twitter and Instagram.
    MattPTexas6
  • ALPJrALPJr Posts: 1,948 Mega Baller
    Great suggestions. I'm a lefty too. @Luzz can you repost the video? I cannot open this one. Thanks
  • WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,511 Crazy Baller
    That gate looked rushed to me. Seems like you just need a split second longer to slow down before you turn in for the gates. Maybe a more aggressive pull out and not quite as long will help. Getting on your front foot a little harder in the glide will also help you slow the ski down a little better.

    Off topic.... I had a camera that jittered like that. I believe it was a Samsung. I've owned two JVC cameras and absolutely love how smooth the video is even without the advanced stabilization. Just a quick tip to help you analyze your own skiing.
    Texas6
  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    Damn, Dane Mechler really does have a great gate. @Luzz, @MattP, @jimbrake, all very good advice - thanks a million!! And I agree a hundred percent with what you are saying now that I read it. MattP, I posted a shakey iPhone6 video from this morning of a bad 32. This one was not clean for me but its real so whatever. I generally run a couple successful 32's a set (some more successful than others). In this vid, transition in the glide is a tad better, more balanced on the ski at turn in, and I'm higher on the boat, but still had a little slack at one ball. I agree completely that my transition in the glide is pretty bad in general, and its something I'm going to work on starting tomorrow. And Luzz and Jimbrake make a great point on my arms, etc etc... so much to work on, hoping to have it all figured out by the time I'm too old to walk. :) but this is awesome input, thank you!!




    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
    MattP
  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    @Waternut, sorry about the video, its an iPhone6 with a Wakeye. The image stabilization leaves a lot to be desired
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • 303Skier303Skier Posts: 468 Solid Baller
    edited August 2015
    Watching both or your passes when you go to turn in, your right shoulder is dropping in heavy which is loading the line. Since ZO reacts to load it will pull you upright. If you watch Dane, and @CParrish43, you see that they both initiate their turn in by separating the handle away and up from the body. This allows the ski to carve in and set the edge. I am LFF and have the same issue dropping in and sinking that right shoulder. Hope this helps! Keep up the good work.
    Texas6Than_Bogan
  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,041
    I think you get good height on the boat but lose that height and become narrow before your turn in. You have to establish the angle much higher up on the boat. You are building speed without angle and that causes you to ski at one ball and have to hook it to start your pass. I think, as some have suggested, if you just adjust your gate pull out and glide so that you don't lose that height on the boat you will be fine. There is a level of trust that you have to have that as you stay higher on the boat and turn in, the ski is going to be there for you.
    Bob Grizzi
    Texas6MattP
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,583 Mega Baller
    edited August 2015
    What or people using to key off to turn in for the gate when you get this wide. I've not at 35 but have been experimenting with getting wider gates. I'm LFF also.
  • mwetskiermwetskier Posts: 1,329 Mega Baller
    edited August 2015
    in an instructional video from 2009 will asher said he began his pullout for the gate when the *right* hand green ball disappears from sight behind the bow of the boat. this may or may not be right for you but its a great marker point. if it seems too late just go a bit before the ball hides. if it seems too early and you are losing speed in your glide maybe wait a beat after the ball hides and then go.
    Texas6Luzz
  • TevskisTevskis Posts: 28 Baller
    @Texas6
    After watching your video I have to agree with @jimbrake and @MattP on a couple of things to work on now, however I am very interested to what sensations you feel as you begin to create your energy on the gate pullout. In other words what are your thoughts and what key muscle groups do you feel as you begin this motion?

    As I watch the video (primarily the 35 as this is where you asked) I personally feel that you are moving too strongly from the left shoulder down towards the water, thus moving your hips back and you onto the back foot by the time your ski matches and surpasses the boats speed. when you begin to stand up, the ski is no longer on its sweet spot and you are left "searching" for speed, line tension and then angle.

    Can you feel your connection to the ski as you make the move out wide? i.e. your feet? Without being aware of your connection point to the ski, it is nearly impossible to get your core (hips) to move in the direction of travel you wish with the most possible efficiency.

    I really think that you can utilize the boat much more to "generate" your initial width and angle to put you in a much better position over the ski as well as in more consistent swing and rhythm with the boat through the course.

    @Luzz is on point with trying to slow down and smooth out the process... keep up the hard work and lets see the video when you run this thing
    Swimming against the tide...
    Texas6jimbrake
  • LuzzLuzz Posts: 348 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    @ALPJr it's on fb, I can't embed it here but the link should work. It's a public video.
    Host of The Water Ski Podcast
    Organizer of the San Gervasio Pro Am (recap videos from 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, and 2014)
    Co-organizer of the Jolly Clinics
    See what I am up to on Twitter and Instagram.
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,506 Mega Baller
    edited August 2015
    I feel that your "move for the gate" is not aggressive enough and yet a little rushed. (I have a tendency to do this exact same combo...) I think you can make a more aggressive move with your hips and knees to initiate your turn in for the gate, but then be a little patient and let the ski come all the way around before you load. Having done that, I think you'll be able to comfortably load a lot harder than you are now, at which point I'd expect you to be early and slow into the 1 ball.

    Sounds easy, right? :smile:
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
    Texas6
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,506 Mega Baller
    @Texas6 Btw, when I can follow my own advice at -39 ... well I'd imagine that something good would probably happen...
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
    Texas6
  • MarkMMarkM Posts: 114 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    edited August 2015
    You're barely leaning. Let your arms out and lean away from the boat.
  • texas_slalom_tricktexas_slalom_trick Posts: 65 Baller
    @Texas6 , hey Daryn,it's cade, I think part of the problem is a lot of slack,as well as your drifting in on your gate. An issue I have as well.
    Texas6
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