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Michigan is trying to legislate stupid

sixballsixball Posts: 277 Baller
edited April 2016 in Rules/Politics/Issues
Michigan is looking at making a flag for towing law. I hat seeing a Representative thinking A flag is going to fix people who do not understand safe towing. If any one on this site would be willing to drop a not to or leader I will add the purposed bill and its sponsor. How about a full size tow mirror and stop looking backwards! Thanks to anyone who sends a response.
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Comments

  • LeonLLeonL Posts: 2,413 Crazy Baller
    Details? What kinda flag? What kinda towing is impacts. Semis have to use a flag?
    Leon Leonard Stillwater Lake KY - SR Driver SR Judge
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,640 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @LeonL kidding right? Those stupid orange flags you have to fly on your boat in some states when towing a rider.
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • sixballsixball Posts: 277 Baller
    Yeper I think 12 x 12 orange or red flag any time you would have a rider going to be towed. Skier, boarder, tub. So I bet the law will not fit a surfer, He or she would not be towed! I can see a fight on that one.
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,640 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Wow, 12x12 is huge. Still have a smaller one sitting around somewhere from a trip to LOTO a few years ago. I think they are around 5x5
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,640 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Although now that I think about it, in Missouri you only flew the flag when rider was down
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,431 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    My guess is no evidence to support effectiveness. Big flag on motorcycles next? How about joggers, walkers, bikers....people in parking lots, too.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • bassfooterbassfooter Posts: 159 Baller
    California requires a flag be held up when the skier/rider/tuber is in the water, but not while the skier is up and underway. Given the crowds on some of California's public waterways, it's really not all that bad an idea. Have you ever seen Lake Havasu or San Diego's Mission Bay on a holiday weekend?

    However, the new law that @sixball linked to appears to require that the flag be up the whole time the skier is out of the boat, i.e., including while underway. Yikes! That's just plain stupid. The idea behind the flag is to signal that you have bodies and ropes in the water near your boat; you can see a skier/rider/tuber once they're up and being towed.

    I was more concerned by all the legalese about having to tell the Sheriff's Association about who qualifies to practice on "no more than three lakes" designated as "practice lakes". Holy crap. That makes my head hurt - I need more coffee.

    And besides, isn't a tuber a potato?
    RichardDoane
  • gmutgmut Posts: 233 Baller
    You have to understand that this is Michigan and if they can tax it or regulate it they will. If they could only fix our potholes.............sigh!
    inland
  • rodltg2rodltg2 Posts: 1,051 Crazy Baller
    a rider down flag is not a bad idea. at least here in California. How else does another boater know to be aware of a rope and rider? I realize you should always be aware , but here in California any Dick or Jane can buy a boat and head to the lake. no training or license needed. I crack up when I take a newby out on a private ski lake and they ask where's the flag ? lol
  • parkerc2112parkerc2112 Posts: 127 Baller
    Find a membership at a private ski site.. Leave the flags to the ametuers.
  • WayneWayne Posts: 520 Solid Baller
    @parkerc2112 some private lakes can still be "patrolled" by department of natural resources in Michigan. So it's not as cut and dry. This is kind of silly regulation but I'm betting it stems from an accident a couple years ago, I believe a direct drive boat struck some people on a tube being pulled by a jetski. From what I remember it wasn't totally the DD boats fault due to location of both boats and the land causing an obstructed view for both vessels. A 12x12 flag would certainly make it hard for people to tow a skier/rider/tube behind a jetski but not specifically target them in the wording.
  • liquid dliquid d Posts: 1,276 Mega Baller
    it's not 12 feet...it's 12 inches.
    dvskier
  • liquid dliquid d Posts: 1,276 Mega Baller
    Like the ones we used to use at Pro Tourneys to indicate the rope length. Think of the diver down flags, but smaller.
  • The_MSThe_MS Posts: 5,765 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    KC for President. Make Water Skiing Great Again
    Shut up and ski
    WishSkoot1123inland
  • bassfooterbassfooter Posts: 159 Baller
    @Wayne where was that accident? Just curious. The absolute worst kind of legislation is that which is in reaction to a one-time event, no matter how unfortunate the outcome. Besides, a driver not watching where they're going isn't going to see a flag.

    [sighs heavily]
  • MISkierMISkier Posts: 2,994 Mega Baller
    @Wayne and @bassfooter, I believe this is the accident that may have initiated the new law:

    http://www.theoaklandpress.com/general-news/20130715/residents-distraught-after-second-west-bloomfield-sibling-dies-following-tragic-boating-accident-in-keego-harbor

    Sorry about the long link.

    I think that the father pulling the kids on the tube may have been found at fault.
    The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears.
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,640 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Doesn't seem like a new law was needed. There were enough violations of existing laws.
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,431 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Perhaps boater training...perhaps even requiring a license as we do with our motor vehicles so that there is a base level of competency would go further than flags.

    If the posted incident is what inspired the legislation, I understand the pain and the reaction. Having said that...if the jet ski towing the tube had a flag would it have made a difference? What is the legal safe distance and is it being maintained? Legislation only makes sense if it really would make a difference in safety. For those who are on really busy public water and say it's a good idea...that opinion carries significant weight.

    I pull a fair amount of tubers in the summer and I'll say it is the most stressful towed sport I drive on a public lake. Making some turns and swings I have to stay hyper-vigilant much more-so than straight line towed sports. If others are pulling tubes no matter what I'm doing around them I'm hyper vigilant as I don't expect them to be watching for traffic as much as they are watching the exploits on the tube they tow. Tubing is often not taken seriously enough.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • WayneWayne Posts: 520 Solid Baller
    The accident on Sylvan was the one I was thinking of. The proposed legislation and its relation to that incident is pure speculation on my part but based on how it's implemented it really seems to make it a pain for vessels where mounting a flag holder won't be easy so a passenger will have to hold it.

    It was mentioned "if you don't like it get on a private lake". That won't work, I'm not sure of all private lakes but I do know of a couple that the department of natural resources accesses them from time to time for fish and water studies. They however have the authority to enforce the laws for boats if they choose. I've personally seen citations issued for under age drivers on jetskis and for towing with out a spotter issued via an officer on land pulling the registration number with a pair of binoculars and looking up who registered the boat.

    Regardless regulation may or may not improve safety. I do like that Michigan requires a boater safety certificate and restricts the age for jetski use. This flag thing however seems more like a reaction and not well thought out. If you are too stooped to identify a skier in tow and not stay away, a flag on the tow boat isn't going to improve visibility. Hell 90% of the pontoons on my lake have obnoxious flags on them and they are no more visible to me than a guy on a stand up jetski.
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,274 Mega Baller
    Do they really want the boaters to unite and be a force to reckon with in politics?
  • EFWEFW Posts: 146 Baller
    America - Land of the Free!
  • EdbrazilEdbrazil Posts: 1,396 Historical Baller
    Make that "...used to be Free". Big differences since I was a young person some 50+
    years ago.
  • sixballsixball Posts: 277 Baller
    I had a very close call and we had two spotters. Both adults (skiers), I was just ready to pull out for a for lack of better word set of turns. ( open water skiing) I was at 41 off so not long rope. Just had a funny feeling as I started I pulled up and as I did a jet ski passed me less then 15 feet of my side. He passed me then cut our boat off. Our driver had to pull the throttle back to idle. I lost the jetski in front of the boat it was so close.
    In the end we found the kids and asked to talk with the parent. So 8:30 am the parent comes out of the house. He is a good 300+lbs beer in hand asking what can I do. We told him the issue and got back. Well no one got hurt! Yeper a big flag would have fixed that!
    Living on an all spots lake we are off the water before things get going on weekends. But I just cringe seeing some of the things we do. All the laws in the world will not fix stupid.
  • LeonLLeonL Posts: 2,413 Crazy Baller
    @oldjeep I'm kinda DUH I guess. My whole time reading the first post I'm thinking towing a boat down the road instead of towing a skier.
    Leon Leonard Stillwater Lake KY - SR Driver SR Judge
  • burdhntrburdhntr Posts: 34 Baller
    There's a few "issues" with existing and potential laws here in MI. The one that still drives me crazy is that we have to wear coast guard approved life jackets when behind a boat. As a barefooter, it's obvious to me how ridiculous this is. I've been pulled over on our private lake (county still comes out multiple times per week) and given a warning about this. It sure seems to be getting more and more ridiculous here in the Mitten.
  • EdbrazilEdbrazil Posts: 1,396 Historical Baller
    edited April 2016
    See just above. Tell the gummint gendarmes that it is private property, and kindly just
    get their intrusive butts off the property. Better yet, how about a gate at the entrance?
  • BlueSkiBlueSki Posts: 822 Mega Baller
    In MI, until age seven the kids have wear a vest with the pillow behind the head (or the classic orange type II). The sheriff that told us about that said he did not like giving tickets, so he was kind enough to let us off. He stopped us as we were bringing the kid in the boat after he was skiing.
  • MISkierMISkier Posts: 2,994 Mega Baller
    edited April 2016
    @BlueSki, did the sheriff on Grand Lake stop you? I was unaware of the "pilllow vest" requirement. We move our kids to regular vests when they are 4 or 5.
    The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears.
  • BlueSkiBlueSki Posts: 822 Mega Baller
    edited April 2016
    @MISkier Yes, Grand Lake on a quiet Saturday. The kid skied himself and the rode with me on the front of some old jumpers. Not sure the Sheriff actually saw him on skis, otherwise there may have been additional comments.

    Silver Spray has the special vests, which are hard to find. We never bought one.
  • RAWSkiRAWSki Posts: 751 Mega Baller
    Sylvan lake was a terrible tragedy. Not sure if these changes do much to help.... except make your head hurt when you read them. I have seen cases where a flag up would help when someone that was "In Tow" is down in the water or of a rope in the water. It's interesting they have kept the MWSA rules that allow the lack of an observer {but you have to jump thru so many 'hoops' to satisfy the rule}.
    @burdhntr unless there was a recent change in Michigan a skier does not have to have a USGA approved device on them, they just need to have it in the boat that is pulling them. The rule is different if they are behind a PWC or if they are on a tube I believe.
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