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Porpoise & Hopping Into & Out of Off Side

ALPJrALPJr Posts: 1,624 Crazy Baller
edited May 2016 in Skis Fins Bindings
Getting some porpoise and hop coming into and out of off side. Somewhat random on easy and harder passes. Today, glass calm coming into #2 early after a nice #1 as I release ski porpoises, hops and stops. What to do?

Comments

  • MISkierMISkier Posts: 2,253 Mega Baller
    Just speculation, but could you be riding the tail? Or, somehow dropping your hips back behind you? It just sounds like you may not be balanced on the ski.

    The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears.
    Waternutsixball
  • ALPJrALPJr Posts: 1,624 Crazy Baller
    edited May 2016
    It's possible. Was happening prior two days. My ski bud suggested moving bindings forward as water was breaking at rear of front boot. I moved 1/8" forward today. It improved, water breaking under front heal but still is porpoising tip up / down and a couple times felt like hopping. Maybe moving another 1/16 or 1/8 forward. Have not touched the fin yet.
    david_quail
  • mbabiashmbabiash Posts: 404 Solid Baller
    Chet noticed this same thing on my ski. He added a little depth and it cured it. He said that the ski was hunting and wanting to roll over to quickly. Just a thought.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 25,654 Administrator
    Add some lenght or depth. You need a tick of drag to stabilize things.

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  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,221 Mega Baller
    @ALPJr What are your binding and fin settings, and how confident are you that these measurements have been taken properly?
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
  • rodeconrodecon Posts: 181 Baller
    Search for "porpoise" on this forum, some good info in other threads on this, I had the same problem a couple of years ago and my fin was out of spec, adjusted it and ski was transformed! Listen to @SkiJay he helped me out tremendously
  • skialexskialex Posts: 746 Crazy Baller
    As long as your bindings are not way off factory specs, moving back or forth 1/8" is a huge change. Instead check your fin, use stock numbers and at that point if you are still not comfortable, try some adjustment or ask someone to help you with.
    Just only moving the bindings or adjusting the wing angle is rarely a good way to fine tune a disfunctional ski.
    Alex,
  • slowslow Posts: 313 Solid Baller
    My ski sometimes porpoises when my front leg gets too straight. If i keep my front knee flexed over the front of the binding it stops and i get stacked better as well.
    I'm amazed at how much front knee flex Nate has coming into the ball
    Texas6
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,043 Mega Baller
    I disagree that an 1/8" for a binding is a huge change. I think even a 3/16" increment is fine when still in "coarse search" mode.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • ski6jonesski6jones Posts: 805 Crazy Baller
    edited June 2016
    @slow, not sure I agree with your comment about Nates knee bend coming out of the ball, or really anywhere in the coarse. Just watched again Nates 1/4 speed 41 off () and his knees don't seem excessively bent. In fact they seem about as straight as they can be under the load of the turn. I only mention it because I think the notion of skiing with severely bent knees as a goal might not be good. Sorry for the short hijack.

    I'm interested in the answer to the original question (porpoising ski) as I'm having a similar problem right now on offside turn.
    Carl Addington, Lakes of Katy, Texas
  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,172
    I get a porpoise from time to time, particularly when I give up the handle early or don't stay tall on my offside. A slight break forward and I'll hop and bounce from time to time
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • slowslow Posts: 313 Solid Baller
    I said coming into the ball looks bent me
  • ski6jonesski6jones Posts: 805 Crazy Baller
    I see you're point. I'd say he's just finished edge change there and still on the handle with both hands, so with the ski just having come through to the inside edge his knees are still bent pretty well. Still relatively bent coming into the ball for one, but the rest he's much taller after the edge change. Great skiing either way.

    @texas6, could be form break as it's only at my hardest passes.
    Carl Addington, Lakes of Katy, Texas
    Texas6
  • slowslow Posts: 313 Solid Baller
    Agreed. Sure fun to watch
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,456 Mega Baller
    @alpjr you have any video? Just thinking about the logic of it. The ski for some reason is out of its equilibrium position. Its seems to me its searching for its to be in the right place in the water. To much tip or not enough? Is the tip high or low?
  • ALPJrALPJr Posts: 1,624 Crazy Baller
    edited June 2016
    Thanks for the advice guys. I'm on a 67 VTypeR set at 6.870, 2.495, .785, 8 and 29 7/8. Water is breaking under front heal. Unstable porpoise/bouncy/hop feeling from just before off-side apex through finish/hook-up. Thanks again.
  • gmutgmut Posts: 198 Baller
    usually porpoising requires more length to remedy.
  • ALPJrALPJr Posts: 1,624 Crazy Baller
    @SkiJay my ski bud just received the Fin Whisperer for his birthday. We'll check the measurements this weekend. Thanks
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,221 Mega Baller
    edited June 2016
    @ALPJr Sorry for the slow response. If it turns out your measurements are accurate using standard measuring techniques (HO uses the caliper tips for FL and the caliper head for DFT), the numbers you've posted should not be causing the ski to porpoise. This leaves issues like too much weight on the back foot and a stiff front leg as the likely cause.
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
    HortonMISkier
  • ALPJrALPJr Posts: 1,624 Crazy Baller
    Thanks @SkiJay, will measure today.
  • gmutgmut Posts: 198 Baller
    @ ALPjr move front boot forward, this will add tip and evaluate,better or worse.
  • gavskigavski Posts: 173 Baller
    I sometimes get bounced off the 2nd wake into my offside at 35/38'off... Caused by being way too hard out of the previous ball and overloading the line/ ski etc...being soft/ light coming out of my onside turn cures it... But that is easier said than done...
    Gloersen
  • ski6jonesski6jones Posts: 805 Crazy Baller
    @ALPJr, did you eventually resolve this issue?
    Carl Addington, Lakes of Katy, Texas
    wtrskior
  • ALPJrALPJr Posts: 1,624 Crazy Baller
    No. Been busy with work and family stuff - daughter's graduation this Saturday. Will get back to skiing next week.
    ski6jones
  • ALPJrALPJr Posts: 1,624 Crazy Baller
    edited July 2016
    @SkiJay So I tweaked the fin as close to factory as I can get and have the bindings at 29-7/8, but still getting the porpoising on toe side edge. I even tried the Gordan Rathbum cut drill - riding the edge all the way down the lake, shifted my weight forward, aft and balanced it's still bouncing. Same at 32 and 34 mph and up through 28 off. Gets more dramatic as speed increases. Heel side is solid and stable. What's the next move?
    Gar
  • wtrskiorwtrskior Posts: 704 Crazy Baller
    Id try to Move the fin back and add length to those numbers you posted above. 785 seems a bit aggressive for stock dft. The chart indicates 735 for your ski. Start there or go up 3/1000. Also Binding's back. Stock is 29.5. Start at 29 5/8 if you've tried 29.5.

    6.88 2.495 .725 29.5 is stock.

    Those are pretty traditional numbers many skis get from the factory. Another option is to go long and shallow. Take the depth and multiply the length then take that number and divide it by a desired new length or depth baselone for a long/shallow setup.

    6.95 and 2.47 would be worth a try and equates to 6.88.. 2.495

    It sounds like there isn't enough tip or enough ski in the water hence adding tip and moving bindings back.

    When you say "stock" numbers. What are the actual numbers you're setting? Had a guy tell me his ski was at stock settings but it meant he'd never touched it from the factory...
  • ALPJrALPJr Posts: 1,624 Crazy Baller
    edited July 2016
    Let me take another look. Think I'm pretty close to what's posted on the HO website.
  • ALPJrALPJr Posts: 1,624 Crazy Baller
    edited July 2016
    Close to factory triple checked, except for 8 on the wing. Hmm... Just put the wing back on and noticed that end of both screws poke a hair or two out past the threaded hole, on my toe side. Could that have an effect on things?
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,043 Mega Baller
    This sounds quite unusual. Maybe a video will help some expert figure out if it's a setup issue or a technique issue or both?
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • ALPJrALPJr Posts: 1,624 Crazy Baller
    edited July 2016
    I measured again and was off on the length by .015 ish. Reset everything and will try again tomorrow.
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