Toning

MSJMSJ Posts: 16 Baller
edited February 2010 in News & Other Stuff
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How does "Toning" Zero OFF help the skier and is it cheating if the times are intolerance?
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If this is helping skier's shouldn't we cap the rpm's on ZO for speed correction?
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Comments

  • ski6jonesski6jones Posts: 1,199 Mega Baller
    I heard that term in another thread.  Will someone define "Toning" please.
    Carl Addington, Lakes of Katy, Texas
  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
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    Its crap.
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    ZO is ZO and it cannot be made easy. If it were easy they they would call it wakeboarding.   
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  • StevenSteven Posts: 307 Baller
    When using ZO, you're supposed to move the throttle close to a wide open position after ZO has taken over. This allows the motor to make unlimited rpm swings when the skier loads up in his or her pull phase. Toning is when the driver doesn't add that additional throttle room, so when you pull the skier up out of the water the driver manages the throttle only to the point of where the system takes over and then leaves the throttle control in that position instead of pushing the control to the wide open position. When the driver doesn't push the control to the w.o. position it doesn't allow the motor to make such large rpm swings, there for being easier on the skier.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 1,608 Mega Baller
    If they're doing this intentionally to help the skier, then the boat judge has to be in on it. The ZO control will emit error beeps when it can't advance the throttle far enough.
    Roger B. Clark - Okeeheelee skier. Senior driver, Senior Judge
  • skisprayskispray Posts: 238 Crazy Baller
    Haven't tested it but I would think prolonged toning while going through the course would give you a slow time.  That beeping is telling you the engine can't react enough to compensate for the skier slowing the boat down.  I'm with MS here, it's probably crap.  The tolerances are quite tight with ZO anyways.
  • scokescoke Posts: 754 Crazy Baller
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    if thats what "toning" is, it's got a high probability of hurting the skier and not helping them.
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     I had this happen to me twice this season, unintentionally.  Both times the driver didn't bury the throttle, as designed, but they babied it up like StarGazer. Both times the boat surged, over-reacted and i was out of rythym with the boat for the pass- too hot then cold etc.
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     ZO isn't designed to operate this way and doesn't react kindly to it. "You're doing it wrong." "Fail"
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     If toning means trying to set the course "too long" when you MAP a course to try and get slow speeds, that doesnt work either. We tried tricking it too long too short, you name it. Doesn't change anything. We also tried MAPPING the course while going at idle on both gates. We tried MAPPING the course after running the boat to full speed etc as we had heard that can affect it. Didn't work. We tried all this to see what the boundaries of the equipment were not for any other reason. Engineers are always looking for optimum performance.
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     ZO is one of the smartest software systems I have ever played with. It's several generations ahead of anything else out there.
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  • adamadam Posts: 48 Baller
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    When we first got our 09 Malibu, I accidently pulled a skier with the throttle too low.  ZO will not apply throttle at a setting higher than what the throttle handle position would allow.  Nothing crazy happened.  At least with our boat.  It just beeped during each pull.  I could see where this may give a softer pull.  I think it would limit the RPM swings.  Of coarse the driver would have to practice to find that sweet spot for the throttle because if it is too low, the times would be affected.  I always push the throttle all the way now that I am comfortable with the way ZO operates.  I have never noticed any drivers doing this in any of the tournaments I go to.  I doubt any boat judges would be in on it.  They are probably paying more attention to the boat path the skier.  If it was intentionally happening, I could see it putting the boat judge in a bad situation.  It would be an easy fix for ZO to just display error or something like that as opposed to the time.
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  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
    Turn off the alarm and you dont here it. 16.94, 95 or 96 every time and it always feels the same.
  • StevenSteven Posts: 307 Baller
    I find it hard to believe that there are too many drivers doing this intentionally. I can see this happening (by mistake) with an in-experienced driver that doesn't fully understand how the system works. In our area, I highly doubt that this or any other intentional cheating is going on! I think that the majority of us skiing tournaments are good respectable people more interested in elevating our sport rather than tearing it down for 1 more buoy!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 1,608 Mega Baller
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    I am both a driver and a judge and I can tell you this is not going on anywhere I ski or judge which would include Okeeheelee, Miami, Mulberry, and Palm Bay most often. I've only heard that alarm a couple of times and it was due to the driver not advancing the throttle far enough (I don't mean not at all, they had moved it forward of the engagement point, just not all the way). This happened on particularly hard pulling/heavy skiers.
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    Cheating of any kind like this (weaving, running in rec mode, toning, whatever) would not be tolorated where I ski and if it was, I would not participate there, period.
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    Roger B. Clark - Okeeheelee skier. Senior driver, Senior Judge
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 4,001 Infinite Pandas
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    Stan's ZO boat (near sea level) does not need anything like full throttle to pull even the heaviest slalom skier. I advance the throttle until it beeps and then give it a bit more. That has always been enough to hit the skier properly. I am uncomfortable with wide open throttle (when not needed) as any GPS or DBW issues will cause a huge scary surge.
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    Of course, it does take some driver skill to determine the appropriate amount of extra throttle. A more skilled driver might be able to cheat and hide not quite enough throttle. But either the time will be slow or the pull will feel bad as the boat makes up the slow time. Either way the cheat will work against the skier. Every driver I have judged with tries to give the skier the best possible ride. I can't imagine anyone cheating to hurt a skier's performance (and ever being invited to drive again).
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    I have personally had too many throttle runaways to be comfortable with advancing the throttle all the way and taking my hand off the throttle. Some drivers are taught this and it is impossible to cheat when you do this. But it makes me very uncomfortable and I always ask drivers on my lake to cover the throttle and not bury it. Our practice sets give excellent pulls with this technique.
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    As a judge, I have seen mistakes that work for or against a skier. But I have never seen cheating in any of our Western Region tournaments.
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    Eric
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  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 4,792 Mega Baller
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    cheaters never prosper
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    In WashingtonState, we shoot cheaters
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    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
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