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Denali Summit 2016 video

WishWish Posts: 8,269 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★


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Another Denali Summit Success. Despite the unseasonably cooler weather for Charleston, the Adams managed to take skiers to the next level including myself. Part of me thought since I had been through it once before that I may not pick up much. Nope, I picked up a great deal more. Having them in the boat every set coaching plus the classroom studies along with a fun atmosphere start to finish was key. It didn't hurt having an Oyster festival going on at the same time on site. Actually it was the largest non skiing crowd I've seen standing on the shore watching skiers and asking questions. I think the big take away for most skiers ended up being just how much less physically demanding course skiing is at any rope length, physical make up or boat speed when you've learned the "how to" of GUT. Looking forward to the next one and have a lot to work on between now and then. Thank you Adams.

Also had a chance to ride the 2017 ski. Wasn't sure if they could improve much but just like all the other manufactures, they did... and in spades. With no fin or boot adjustments, first set ran several 32s with a clean and early 35. Basically was told I had to go to 38. Had a great 1 ball twice but the cold had sapped any strength I had left as it was my 3rd set. For this Florida boy that is damn good considering water and air temps that I never see and certainly never ski. Want a few more rides before commenting to much but more stable and seamless are the 2 words that pop to the front of my mind. Any ski I test or settings, I am tentative with first rides. That all vanished coming out of ball 2 first pass. Well done Adams.
>>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
MuskokaKy9400Than_Bogan6ballsJordanAdamCordFehlindra Razorskier1BulldogSkoot1123
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Comments

  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    Nice @wish! Thanks for recording and sharing the video! Makes me wish I was skiing, but alas, I'm stranded in Minnesota.
    Jim Ross
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,913 Mega Baller
    edited December 2016
    I believe Wish and I are the only two-time Denali Summit attendees [it was a smaller event the first year], and I strongly echo his comments as far as the educational value: I learned so much -- again. It's almost like what I grasped last year was enough to make me a little smarter so that I could grasp a lot more this year!

    If you are a physics-minded athlete, these events alone would be reason enough to ski a Denali. The fact that the 2017 is crazy awesome is just a bonus...
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • AdamCordAdamCord Posts: 936 Open or Level 9 Skier
    Thanks @Wish and @Than_Bogan for coming! Everyone who came survived the record low temps so I consider that to be a plus.

    By the 3rd day everyone was looking and skiing noticeably better. Hopefully by coaching in our own strange and nerdy way it allows people to keep improving long after they've left the Summit!

    In case anyone is wondering, we did 3 days of coaching with Denali skiers. Each morning we spent about 2 hours in a classroom going over GUT physics and geometry. Then everyone got to ski 2-3 sets each day, working on what they had learned in the morning.
    Than_BoganRazorskier1
  • GlockGlock Posts: 192 Baller
    Is the Denali summit open to any Denali owner? I don't own one yet, but may consider as a tool to really learn ski theory and technique.
    adamhcaldwellThan_Bogan
  • AdamCordAdamCord Posts: 936 Open or Level 9 Skier
    @Glock

    Anyone sporting one of these bad boys:

  • adamhcaldwelladamhcaldwell Posts: 766 Open or Level 9 Skier
    Yes. Invitations go out to all customers new and old on a first come first serve basis.

    For the next summit event we are considering accepting enrollments for those who would like to participate and be part of the discussion/activities but not necessarily ski 2-3 sets a day.
    Ralph LeeRazorskier1
  • CsSkisCsSkis Posts: 120 Baller
    @adamcaldwell and @adamcord, thanks for letting me be someone that was able to participate and yet not ski 2 - 3 sets a day. For me, the presentations and visualizations that were included as part of the classroom work were even more powerful a learning tool than being coached out on the water. Great job!
    Chuck Illi
    Than_Bogan
  • WishWish Posts: 8,269 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited December 2016
    And there's where @Than_Bogan and I part ways...I am NOT physics minded and berrely an athlete. But still easily understood what they were saying and then some. For me, it has been the fountain of youth. No more big hits out of the ball, way less loads and most lines feel the same physically other then reaction time changing as the line gets shorter. It is an amazing concept and explains a lot as to why some pros are just better then others and not nessisarally stronger. Once you dig into what the Adams teach, you will never look at a pro or any other skier the same way. Many many ah ha moments.

    Oh, and what is also a bit mind bending to me is this was all filmed, edited and the final copy rendered by my phone. These phones are amazing and the camera quality is to the level of real photo gear I have that's not even 5 yrs old.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
    Than_Bogan
  • Steven_HainesSteven_Haines Posts: 1,065 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I can't view the video d-/
  • WishWish Posts: 8,269 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @Steven Haines not sure why. It works on my phone rather well. Maybe try a different device from the one you are using.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • Steven_HainesSteven_Haines Posts: 1,065 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Thanks @Wish! Still no luck.
  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    Sounds like Summit 2.0 was a great success! Between knee surgery, my work schedule, and other issues I suspect I won't be skiing again until the ice goes out in MN. Sad face.
    Jim Ross
    adamhcaldwell
  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    @AdamCord -- I've been working on a number of those concepts since the last Summit. No question that doing the gate right (from the time the boat pulls me up until I turn in) is critical to the rest of the course -- as you said, if you do that right, the buoys are just in the right place and you don't even think about the turns because it all becomes natural. By the end of this season I was there, and it oddly made every pass from 28 off through 38 off feel the same. No change in technique, no change in intensity. Just go out there and start right and then let it all happen all the way down the course. Really appreciate that you guys share this information so willingly!
    Jim Ross
    WishThan_BoganAdamCordadamhcaldwell
  • WishWish Posts: 8,269 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited December 2016
    35 off 2017 Denali... It's a goooood ride.

    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
    Than_BoganAdamCord9400adamhcaldwell
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,590 Mega Baller
    @wish even with a few little bobbles that looked easy.
    Than_Boganadamhcaldwell
  • AdamCordAdamCord Posts: 936 Open or Level 9 Skier
    @Wish nice skiing! Not bad for your only crack at 35 on the new ski. I believe you jumped right onto that ski after several of us 36mph guys rode it and made no fin changes, right?
    adamhcaldwellCaleBurdick
  • WishWish Posts: 8,269 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Correct and if you really want to know the truth, I was frign cold, tired, could not see 2 and 4 ball in that direction (glare) and had already run some 32s and had a looong set earlier that day. That pass was way more the ski then me. I had nothing left to give to a pass. When you all said cut to 38...I was like..hmmmmm..waist of gas? Did not expect to even round 1 ball let alone backside it. But when your legs basically given up there is no ball 2. Guessing festival foods like beer, corn dogs and funnel cake probably played a part. I have no will power. I think we all agreed after the first couple passes that the only adjustment would be wing from 9 to 8 and nothing else. To me that says a lot. You all killed it at 36 (see shortliners in video) and it worked extremely well for me at 34 considering. This after you all had to guess where exactly to put my like no other one off boot system. I know, engineers never guess. Again...well done Adams.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
    AdamCordgregy9400adamhcaldwell
  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,409 Mega Baller
    @AdamCord - "how to move along the fall line". I was going to tongue-in-cheek poke fun at you for this because you'll lose your non-snow skiers with that kind of crazy talk. But then since I'm a snow ski fanatic.....tell me more! Please.
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
  • AdamCordAdamCord Posts: 936 Open or Level 9 Skier
    @jimbrake we use that term a little differently than how it's used in snow skiing. We define the fall line as a line between the balls of your feet perpendicular to the ski (pointing to the left and right, not up). Then we make sure all our movement on the ski are along that line. In essence it's ignoring the boat, and basing where you move your COM/body off of the ski alone.

    Here's me (attempting) to do this on the gate shot. First set in 6 weeks so it's not perfect but you get the idea:









    adamhcaldwellThan_Bogan
  • adamhcaldwelladamhcaldwell Posts: 766 Open or Level 9 Skier
    @Jimbrake. Would you lean 'uphill' on a snow ski? Leaning against the boat is really the same as leaning uphill on snow rather then moving/leaning relative to the skis. Its very counter productive and just forces you to skid your way down the lake just as it would on a hill covered in snow.
  • WishWish Posts: 8,269 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    For me, behind fall line looks like a struggle against the boat with high loads while ahead of fall line looks like I'm using the boat and handle swing to propel myself forward faster with little loads. Certainly makes things a lot easier on me physically...a lot.



    .
    It may look subtle but the difference in feel is significant for me.

    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
    adamhcaldwellThan_BoganBruce_Butterfield
  • WishWish Posts: 8,269 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @jimbrake in down hill racing, snow skiers want skis to track around the gates and not skid (skidding = slowing). If you look at the spray coming off my ski, which pic looks like skidding and which looks like tracking based on the spray?
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
    9400
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,913 Mega Baller
    @Wish It's funny: That doesn't seem subtle to me at all, but I bet it would have a couple of years ago. As I am beginning to grasp The Way of the GUT, the two photos above look like night and day difference. (And btw, nice job!)

    What's most interesting to me is that it's easier to get there than you might think AND it has almost nothing to do with moving forward*. I'm not going to be able to explain in one sentence what we worked on for hours at the summit, but the short short version is that if you always move in that plane described above, you end up in the right place.

    *Well, I guess there is a pretty dramatic move forward that happens even before the first still of Cord above.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 1,907 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    @wish I dont see much difference in the spray, but the change in body position, ski angle and ski attitude is huge. I bet it feels like like you are on the hairy edge of going OTF?

    The thing that stands out in Cord's last pic is how flat the attitude of the ski is. Lots of angle and very efficient use of the ski. He has 100% of his weight on the front foot. It probably doesn't hurt that the front binding is mounted 40" from the tail either B)
    I'm Ancient. WTH do I know?
    AdamCord
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,913 Mega Baller
    Actually, no. Or at least to whatever extent I've ever manage to do it, it doesn't feel unsafe in any way. In fact, the whole thing feels slower and more stable, without the slightest "oh shit" trigger. Because of deeply ingrained (and wrong) instincts, it's a little scary to watch someone do it, but not at all scary to do it.

    If you try to emulate this technique by simply pushing yourself forward, I predict crazy OTFs will result, because that's not actually what's going on. The forward look is an illusion of perspective; the actual skier is dead centered over the ski. (Hold a T square out in front of you to see where the illusion comes from.) If you do the whole fall line thing, you'll end up looking like Wish (or Cord or Nate), and with a totally relaxed mind.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • WishWish Posts: 8,269 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Like Cord, like Nate..haha well that's generous but thanks @Than_Bogan. So Than is correct in the way I feel. I do not feel like an OTF is even possible. Quite the opposite when I'm all loady, working against the boat and behind the fall line. Getting pitched forward or trying to get forward at that point is what cause the OTF for me. He is also correct in trying to emulate and not really understand. That could be a train wreck. And to be perfectly honest I'm not sure how much of what the Adams have to say as far as the "how to" would have been understood without them sharing the knowledge in person with some skiing directly following. It's a lot to digest and in person significantly lessons misinterpretations. Their current model of the Danali Summit just makes all the puzzle pieces fit together. For me, when all the pieses did come together (conceptually, still working through implementation) it fundamentally altered my skiing both intellectually and physically. Sort of that 2 steps back for one HUGE step forward kind of thing. So while my scored may not reflect an increase (2 steps back period) my skiing has changed significantly (pics above) opening the door for that to happen (the big step forward). Plus it just makes it a lot frign easier to physically ski to up to my average and at my age that matters greatly.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,477 Mega Baller
    Thats not subtle
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,409 Mega Baller
    @AdamCord - thanks for your explanation of how you guys are using the term "fall line". I get it.
    @adamhcaldwell and @Wish - Yes, understood. @Wish the difference between your two pictures is not subtle at all. The first is driving with the brakes on, the second is all gas pedal. Nice.

    I'm pretty much the last guy on this board you need to explain what fall line in ski racing means or carving vs. skidding. Also, just for the record, I'm fully on board with the tenets of GUT. I've been working on the same things since long before I ever heard of GUT. I'm not sehr gut (see what I did there?) at it, but I understand it and am working on it.
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
    Wishskier2788bishop8950
  • WishWish Posts: 8,269 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @Bruce_Butterfield yes to all the other differences. Was trying to draw a different parallel to snow skiing that actually has a visual. A ski tracking rather then skidding, snow or water shows up in snow and water spray that I've noticed. On snow, the spray is what is often pointed out by the announcers in a downhill race when things are going bad and they usually state how speed is lost when that happens. In the last pic of Cord (he is like a machine) his ski is tracking more and skidding less. Forward speed with weight ahead of fall line. Here's another pic where you can see all the differences you describe as well as the spray being different. Now for me much of the difference in spray or skidding is noticed at 32 off. I'm either doing things right or wrong. I can run it either way. But one is waaaay easier then the other. At 38, things get closer to the way I used to ski and the differences are very subtle....working in that. Now, in reality I could be off base but the spray is something that has caught my eye in watching differences in pros and finding old stills vs new stills of myself.
    .

    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
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