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Problem with Pro Lock gloves

KRoundyKRoundy Posts: 391 Crazy Baller
Confession time - I am getting older (50) and need to lose weight. But I love to ski and have been getting back into it a lot more lately. I skied daily as a teen and got pretty good, but kids and job and responsibilities.... But that is the past and I really want to ski a lot more. I'm down about 10 lbs from the beginning of the ski season but have a long way to go. I'm at 260 right now (I'm 6'-1" tall) and ski on a 71" Radar Senate. So, appropriately sized ski for a big boy like me.

The question I have for the forum is about cincher type gloves. I have a pair of MasterLine Pro Lock gloves and I really struggle with them. This last weekend I struggled and struggled to even get up on my ski, which has really not happened before. I eventually just wore myself out trying to hang on for dear life with these gloves. It felt like the handle would slip out of my hands right at highest drag moment of a start, right before my ski started to plane. All my friends (who are in much better shape than I) were giving me advice on how to get up on a ski. I know how to do that. It simply felt like I could not grip the handle tight enough. I even tried getting rid of the gloves completely at one point, but with nothing to help provide grip my bare hands didn't stand a chance.

Some thoughts - do I have the wrong size glove? I currently have a size L pair, but find that in almost every other type of glove (snow ski, workout, etc...) I wear an XL. Would moving up to an XL help? The Pro Locks feel really tight across my hand (as if the palm of my hand is too broad), but the fingers of the glove seem long enough. I cinch down the strap around my wrist really tight, since that is now the strap works. Should I give up on the cincher type glove altogether? All my skiing friends swear by them and say it saves their hands and arms, which sounds like a great thing to me. Perhaps the size I have are too big? I can't tell what they should feel like since this is the first pair I have tried. I do have the dowel in and have not tried them without the dowel.

Another thought - I have a desk job and perhaps I just need to work on my hand/arm strength? I've been running to lose weight, but that obviously does nothing for my grip. If you work our your arms or hands for more strength for water skiing, what do you do?
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Comments

  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,327 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    if they are brand new the strap will be slippery until one of two things: enough use or preferably before use rough up the strap with some sand paper. I do this every time I get a new pair.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • KRoundyKRoundy Posts: 391 Crazy Baller
    edited June 2017
    Oh! I've never seen that advice before. The gloves have only a few sets on them. When I was struggling I kept telling my friends that the handle or the gloves felt like they were covered in slime. What you say makes perfect sense. I will rough the straps up with some sand paper and give that a try. Thank you very much, 6balls!
  • mwetskiermwetskier Posts: 1,332 Mega Baller
    eric lee says he heats up a nail an melts small holes into the webbing to make it grip better.
    Bainesster
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,975 Infinite Pandas
    I do that and paint the webbing with wetsuit glue. New gloves are slick.

    I wax old gloves with surf wax. I can never get enough grip.

    I'm struggling with my new hip. I just tried a rear toe kicker. Way easier to get up one footed (OK maybe more technical but way less physical load). Of course, I skied like crap but the start was easy.

    Eric
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,989 Mega Baller
    @6balls and @eleeski are right on new Pro Locks are slippery. Rough up the strap and they should get much better. I have never gone the glue route usually just sanding the straps works for me.
    Mark Shaffer
    6balls
  • UWSkierUWSkier Posts: 1,358 Mega Baller
    edited June 2017
    @eleeski did you vote in the most even BOS Poll in history? If not, here's your chance to skew the numbers. :)How do you start poll

    Interesting on the roughing up of the strap. I've tried clinchers before and hated the feel of the strap on the handle. Maybe the Pro-Locks are worth a look. I'm a habitual callus tearer unless I load up on glove liners, palm savers, then my Boas.
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,975 Infinite Pandas
    @UWSkier I wouldn't change the results. Chicks dig toe back deep water starts.

    Use a rubber band around the straps at the base of the fingers to improve the feel along with improving the grip.

    Eric
  • igkyaigkya Posts: 696 Crazy Baller
    I don't think the problem is with your gloves. I'd ditch the pro-locks and concentrate on your style/form getting up. Are you using a double boot system? As a heavy dude, you may be creating too much drag. Try squeezing your knees together as this will reduce drag and help your starts a lot. Also, keeps your arms out straight, and let the boat pull you up as opposed to try to pull yourself out of the water. Apply as much front pressure as you can once you feel the pull from the boat.
    sixball
  • KRoundyKRoundy Posts: 391 Crazy Baller
    Eric, can you post a picture of what you do with the rubber bands?
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,989 Mega Baller
    @igkya I am not arguing with your advice about technique but new Prolock gloves are very slippery when new. I could get up with them (I am a dragged) but couldn't run the course with them until I sanded the strap.
    Mark Shaffer
  • MortyskiMortyski Posts: 100 Baller
    @KRoundy, I have the exact same issues, size, ski, job and starting problems but slightly older (in my 60’s). What works best for me is a gentle very soft pull. Actually surprisingly soft for such a big guy but it works. I skied decades ago with Mike Suyderhoud and he started with "no gas”. For some of the older folks they would recognize that name as he spent a bit of time behind a boat. I hated the soft pull at first but it’s now the only way I can get out of the water. So tweaking the gloves is a good idea that I will try but also tweak the throttle...you might be pleasantly surprised what less gas does for more mass. It makes no sense but that critical second where it is make it or break it with grip is not nearly as difficult a pull with less gas on the start. Smaller people and larger people don’t have the same issues so my rule of thumb is the bigger you are the smaller the gas. Sounds crazy but what have you got to lose other than a failed start. Good luck. If you try that let me know how it worked.
    jjackkrash
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,975 Infinite Pandas
    @KRoundy I cut a bicycle innertube to make the rubber band. Others use an o-ring. In a pinch, I just electrical tape the webbing to the middle fingers.

    If the webbing is not held next to your fingers it feels like it sticks to the handle. The release is not smooth and your skiing sucks. Keeping the webbing attached to your middle fingers makes the release feel normal.

    Then you can really load the grip.

    No pictures for a while as I'm out of town.

    Eric
  • MortyskiMortyski Posts: 100 Baller
    Thanks @eleeski great tips
  • jjackkrashjjackkrash Posts: 597 Crazy Baller
    I agree 100% with @Mortyski. My other sport is powerlifting and I can and have gained and lost 50 lbs. in the same year. I am 205ish right now and pop right up. At 220 or above, I need a very soft initial start or the handle will pull right out of my hands, even if I am otherwise strong and have a strong grip. I can get out of the hole until I hit about 235 on a 68" ski, then its pretty much over, i.e., no tricks or driving techniques make a difference.

    I would also note that even 5 lbs. makes a noticeable difference on the start. The best advice a fellow heavy ski can give, IMO, is do whatever it takes to shed some pounds; every little bit counts.
  • MortyskiMortyski Posts: 100 Baller
    @jjackkrash I’ve lost 20 lbs and still dropping so I can’t wait to try another start! I agree with all your observations as when I was younger I pushed the limit of a 68 inch ski at 235 as well
    jjackkrash
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,989 Mega Baller
    I skied a 68" ski and a 66" Goode Mid at 230-235 lbs without too much trouble. I do drag a foot to get out of the water which I think is much easier on the body. I ski at 34 mph in the course.
    Mark Shaffer
  • jjackkrashjjackkrash Posts: 597 Crazy Baller
    @chef23, I concur that dragging a foot is much easier on the body and it provides more lift/planing surface on the start; I use double boots and for me 235 lbs. is about my limit to get out of the hole on my ski with my set up.
  • KRoundyKRoundy Posts: 391 Crazy Baller
    I'm working on the weight loss! 10 lbs in a month is a good start, but I'm not going to magically be 225 tomorrow. I've sanded my straps and they feel completely different. I'm also still not convinced that I didn't get a size too small. Will go try on an XL pair and see if the strap feels like it lays more like I think it should. I'll keep everyone appraised of what happens.

    I appreciate all the advice and encouragement! Thank you all.
    jjackkrash
  • gmutgmut Posts: 230 Baller
    I ski on a 71" Radar Senate Lithium. Easy get ups awesome ski. 6' 225lbs
  • OldboyIIOldboyII Posts: 586 Solid Baller
    edited June 2017
    @KRoundy ProLocks work in the opposite way comparing to regular gloves.
    They use same principle as in gympastics palm pads (with fold) for the high bar.
    Clincher gloves do not need you to grab the handle with all your power, all what you need is to keep fingers bent and MOST important - you have to believe in this equipment.

    There is one good dry-land exercise to understant how it works:
    Take handle (attached to the wall etc.) in the middle with one hand and pull it strongly as if you wear regular glove.
    Then (importan part of exercise) - keeping pulling the handle, gradually and slowly relax your fingers, keeping them bent.
    At the certain moment you will cach the feeling that strap's fold with the dovel started working as a hook and load moved from your fingers to your wrist.
    So normally all what you do in clinchers - is controlling curvature of fingers:
    fingers bent - you have a hook
    fingers straight - handle released
    Same in gymnastics where a load is much higher than in skiing.



  • KRoundyKRoundy Posts: 391 Crazy Baller
    @OldboyII Thanks. I do understand that. I have spent some time on land getting a feel for how the gloves work. It definitely helps. When I was struggling to get up I could feel the gloves get to that point where they should lock, but then they would just slip out of my hands. I'm fairly convinced it was that the strap was too smooth. I am planning to give it another go this weekend with my newly sanded gloves and am hopeful that there will be success. I saw on another thread that Masterline might be updating the design? I will be curious to see what comes next.
  • OldboyIIOldboyII Posts: 586 Solid Baller
    @KRoundy I did not understand: gloves slip from your hands or handle slips from your gloves?
    If first - gloves are not tight enough around your wrists.
    If second - there only one reason: it is not your gloves model.
    Reason is always one - strap is too long for your palm anatomy. Not because slippery strap.
    Strap could be too long either itself or because gloves fingers are too long for you.
    Normally your two middle fingers must be significantly bend when your glove is on.
    I tried all clinchers on the market and did myself few for me and friends.




    The strap length from wrist to dovel is a crucial factor, if it fits - you enjoy the glove, if not you fight with it. Most of complaints are because skiers use wrong clincher gloves.
    For the sake of pure experiments once I made prototype of "glove without glove" - only wrist strap and dovel strap which was made of very slippery glossy plastic (the only I had on working desk :) ). It worked in the water perfectly!


    Resuming - check length of strap and either change glove size or modify it (it needs disassembling of the whole wrist area) or try Radar.
    As per my experience Masterline is the best on the market. Though I still did not try Radar's new "inside out" model.

  • OldboyIIOldboyII Posts: 586 Solid Baller

  • JordanOzJordanOz Posts: 62 Baller
    edited July 2017
    @KRoundy what sort of handle are you using? Is it a rubber/tacky handle? If not and you're using a handle with the foam or padding on it, forget it with clinchers. You shouldn't have a problem hanging on.

    I'm 240lbs and I skied today in 8 degree Celsius water and had no trouble hanging on using a Masterline rubber handle and Radar Vice gloves, and I could barely feel my hands because of the cold. I also start 2 feet in.

    We had a guy come new to our club and was trying to get out of the water on a single ski. He had clinchers, but a foam/EVA handle. He couldn't hang on either, and when we tested it on land, the handle would come out of his hands with someone just pulling the rope. Gave him a rubber handle, and the gloves stuck to it and out of the water he came. I'd be looking at your handle possibly.
  • OldboyIIOldboyII Posts: 586 Solid Baller
    Good point. Foam handle isn't compatible with clinchers.
  • UWSkierUWSkier Posts: 1,358 Mega Baller
    edited July 2017
    Fellow clydesdale also echoing the guys recommending a softer pull, especially if you have an older boat. The newer, TBW setups are much softer out of the hole so I don't really have an issue going straight to WOT, but on older, cable throttle setups, no bueno. Many drivers assume that at 6'5" 255 I want full whack from dead stop, but that's a handle pop waiting to happen. Nice gradual roll up to WOT is my favorite pull on a cable throttle. If not that, a two stage pull where once my chest is out, hammer down.
  • KRoundyKRoundy Posts: 391 Crazy Baller
    Went skiing this morning and I'll try to catch up.

    The sandpaper worked. I skied for a bit, fell and then got up again. So the problem is solved.

    My hands were pretty worn out / weak when I was struggling last weekend, but with the sandpaper fix I can get up barely using my fingers at all. I just let the gloves do the work. The gloves work well. I have an In-Tow team handle made by Brenda just for me, so no foam/squishy issues. It is a solid handle. I ski with a double-boot setup.

    As far as technique goes, I get in a little ball and keep the ski in front of me. It has been so long that I have had to think about getting up that I don't know I can describe what I do well. I just get up. That was what was so weird about last weekend when the handle kept slipping out of my hands.

    The glove is certainly not too long. My fingers easily reach the end of each finger of the glove. If anything the glove is slightly small. I've noticed that you have a huge dowel there. Is that a different option to try with my gloves? The rope feels like it is way out on my fingers when it is "locked". I'm getting used to the feeling.

    I'm happy to be skiing again! Boy are my arms tired today. :smiley:

    jjackkrashdvskier
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,327 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @kroundy they work nice with the dowel removed as well.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • sixballsixball Posts: 263 Baller
    Did the same thing about three years ago. Went from no issues with deep water starts two boots to failing to get up three or four times before getting up. I know what I was doing wrong and just could not brake the bad habits. And yes it felt like my grip was lacking. In truth it was all technick. worked on it and its back to nearly never missing a start.
    Yes I use clincher, Vice gloves and I also was getting heavy, no fat! So I fixed that also but after getting my starts down so size was not my biggest problem but sure does not help. I went from 255 to 210 lbs over the last two years and at 66 I am skiing my best ever!
  • KRoundyKRoundy Posts: 391 Crazy Baller
    I'm not saying that technique had nothing to do with my problems a few weeks ago, but the slickness of the gloves were in my opinion 90% of the issue. I've had zero problems getting up since I took the sandpaper to my gloves. I'm also down a few more lbs, which always helps. :wink:
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