Mounting Reflex/Wiley to a Goode

GMC

I'm going to call up Goode in the AM to order a ski or two for demo.  How is everyone mounting a Reflex/Wiley combo for demo purposes?  I will not be buying a PowerPlate and I have a blank teammalibu G10 plate that will be the long-term solution but for short term?  Just coating the bottom of each with Dual-Loc?  How much and what kind (250/400)?  I figure at least a strip down each side, maybe two, and some additional underneath the release mechanism.


This much I know - I went overkill with my FM/9800 combo.  I coated the entire ski and FM plate with 250/400 and I had to destroy the plate to get it off.  Don't want to do that again.

aguylikeshark

to remove a dual locked plate from the ski(alum or otherwise) - just pry up the rear/tail of it (i use a wooden spatula that has been sharpened). Lift it just enough to get a drumstick or thin 1/2" dowel in there. Then run the stick or dowel down the length of the plate. Doesn't matter how much dual lock or what type - the plate pops of so easy. have some one catch the boots or do this on carpeted/grass area.

scotchipman

Below is my Inter-Loc/Dual Lock chart that is a good place to start. I would avoid the 250/400 combo. 


< 120 lbs 2 one inch wide strips of 250 Inter-LocTM  on the ski and plate, four total.

120-140 2.5 one inch wide strips of 250 Inter-LocTM  on the ski and plate, five total.

140-160 3 one inch wide strips of 250 Inter-LocTM  on the ski and plate, six total.

160-180 3.5 one inch wide strips of 250 Inter-LocTM  on the ski and plate, seven total.

180-200 4 one inch wide strips of 250 Inter-LocTM  on the ski and plate, eight total.

200-220 4.5 one inch wide strips of 250 Inter-LocTM  on the ski and plate, nine total.

>220 5 one inch wide strips of 250 Inter-LocTM  on the ski and plate, ten total.




* One strip of 250 Inter-LocTM being the length of a G-10 plate.

GMC

Thanks for the replies guys. 


Scott - I found the 3M product guides for Dual-Loc online today and it seems we commit a couple "sins"...  The most notable of which is that long strips of Dual-Loc are known to 3M to have connectivity issues.  They recommend pieces, not strips.  Just FYI.


Given that I have a conventional release system, I will use your guidelines as a minimum so the Reflex and rubber do their jobs without the Dual-Loc thinking about coming apart. 


Why don't you like the 250/400 combo? 

aguylikeshark

For our 3MX or FM8 plate - we use the 400 on the plate, clear 250 on the ski. I had 100% coverage. Release bindings can pull quite the load depending on the tension. For the release to work right you need a stable platform.


The clear 250 with VHB will come off the ski clean for removal.


I am amazed that skiers trust dual lock to adhere or release as required. our tests showed it to be very inconsistent, fluctuates greatly with temperature. the plastic that makes up the mushrooms is low end and not durable.

With 100% coverage on a ski it does OK. there is enough surface area to form an adequate margin there. Dual lock is essentially a bond-breakable two sided sticky tape. The bond of lox has to be weaker than two-sided sticky tape, otherwise it will pull off lox stock and barrel. So imagine your binding plate being held by strips of sticky tape, no screws or mechanical backup. that makes me way too nervous!

As a matter of fact I just talked to the engineer who consulted on the first hardshell system using Dual Lock. He said dock soap was his big worry, and that came true when his ski went one way he went the other twice in a tourney. So yeah - no engineer 3M or otherwise would be using it for that in-between mode.

Chipper you need a temp spec, water lubricity spec, wear spec, total area spec and distribution and some sort of assembly test - an indicator to show it's actually fully engaged - to make that table you have fully defined.

is there an engineer (PE) out there that would put his/her stamp on it??

scotchipman

The 250/400 bond is hard to get locked and is stronger than needed for a release system in my opinion. The 250/400 bond is so strong that it can rip apart the lox.  Using Dual Lock as a release sytem is not perfect but once you have it dialed in I think it is as good as any sytem available. I think the new HO binding system is going in the right direction but in my opinion it needs a backwards release as well.

aguylikeshark

GMC wants a non-release plate as do we. To mount release bindings (eg. E Series, Revo, and the like) on skis with no inserts: ie the Goode and the Warp. (Warp is a really nice ski, I miss it.)

Obviously dual lock is a working solution - plate and sticky tape - cheap but easy?? Oh man. There is a friend of mine on our lake got the whole factory pkg as a wedding gift. Perfect test pilot! And pilot he is...we watched him do cartwheels through the wakes for about a month. He's setup really strong right now - full 250 coverage. I've seen his plate with a sick bend upward under the front heel after a crash. Hammer and big wood dowel. The front heel needs relief or to be able to come up in a safe binding design. There are 3 plate systems right now that don't allow for that.

Backward release - no. because lose that toe connect you lose control of the ski tip, look out. Have you seen a dual lock plate separate from front toe area? Usually into the wakes, humungous crash = eyeball splitting concussion. If you bail backward you will spin around right away anyway. the front of the ski is what levers against the front ankle. most of the load is directed there 90% of the time. so engineer properly for front ankle loading in a skier self-test (able), repeatable system. that's what we are doing.

Stevie Boy

Hi Guy,s


Anybody got some part numbers for the 250 Inter-LocTM  , I take it these have there own adhesive.


400 part number if you have it.


Thanks

clemsondave

Stevie, I use SJ3560. Usually get it from itapestore.com



I think the 400 is SJ3551.



dave

scotchipman

This is the best place I have found which was previously posted by someone else. http://www.bindingsource.com/items.asp?cat1ID=50&cat1Name=3M%99+Reclosables&cat2ID=&cat2Name=&cat3ID=&cat3Name=&familyID=149&familyName=3M%99+Dual+Lock%99+Trial+Bags


 Buy the TB3560 which is the same as the SJ3560.