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Tournament Video set up inquiry

jayskijayski Posts: 999 Mega Baller
Anyone have splasheye set up for slalom?

How about a 100% wireless camera system for slalom?

Comments

  • BobHBobH Posts: 15 Baller
    Check with Jerry Jackson on his IP setup for the boat. Gate cameras and end course cameras can be wireless but there can also be problems with interference. I use coax for gates and end course. That's low cost and have very few problems with it. I also just use some high end analog transmitters/receivers for the boat. The cheapies off ebay don't work that well. If you go to the Tech Controller link on USAWS, there is an equipment list that might be beneficial. http://www.usawaterski.org/pages/divisions/3event/TCResources/EquipmentList.pdf
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 3,080 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Jay: I’ll text you some info.
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
  • jayskijayski Posts: 999 Mega Baller
    @BobH thank you, well aware of the "equipment" on USAWS site, but the continual use of antiquated technology is mind numbing. It's equivalent to skiing on a 20 year old ski...I was reaching out to find anyone that has tinkered with CURRENT technology to facilitate the required Appreciate the info though
    RAWSki
  • LazLaz Posts: 349 Solid Baller
    Hello. I've been thinking about his problem. We have very old analog equipment that has to be moved from site to site throughout the season. The video quality is very poor.

    On the other hand, I have a drone which can flawlessly broadcast 4k video up to 7km.

    There has to be something in between.

    Needed (at least for slalom)

    - two HD gate cameras, 1 HD boat camera, 1 HD boat path camera
    - 4 channels of digital wireless broadcast, less than 1 km to the judges tower
    - ability to record, rewind and review.

    What else?

    I'm meeting with a local DJI rep who is going to try and help me come up with something affordable easy to setup and take down.

    walleyeRob
  • ScottScottScottScott Posts: 1,068 Mega Baller
    I do a lot of security/surveillance camera systems. I have noticed some of the cameras in use at ski tournaments seem to be CCTV type stuff, and have wondered about the application of some the products I carry to tournament video. (I should have looked at the link of USAWS recommended equipment mentioned above before writing this...I'll do it after.) In the CCTV world...Analog is gone. There are HD over coax systems that give us 2-3MP resolution over the older coax cables. Cable length should be pretty good with those systems but I've had older cabling just 100-200' that couldn't support the bandwidth needed for the signal in the HD cameras. Most of the camera systems I use are IP. Of course with IP you are limited to about 300' of copper (cat6) to be safe. That can be extended by daisy chaining through switches, but that still slowes down as you go through more switches. I have one installation around a 2500' perimeter (in 2 directions...about 4000' total) of a 10 acre property. The network cabling goes through network switches at posts every 250'. The farthest cameras go through 12 switches, and surprisingly....they work fine. I haven't done a system with fiber yet, but the pricing of network over fiber is getting affordable, and cable length isn't an issue. At a ski site, fiber could be run 2000' (or 2 1000' runs if equipment was in the center) for not too much more money than coax. Switches that will accept fiber are a little more money, though as fiber becomes more popular those switches will come down in cost. A good Wifi bridge for just a couple cameras should work pretty well for a line of sight of 1000' or so. A wifi bridge could be powered by 12v and be located on a boat within good range of the transmitter of the bridge.
    MISkierGWaterski
  • ScottScottScottScott Posts: 1,068 Mega Baller
    so I finally looked at the USAWS equipment list. Yes, its pretty much all standard CCTV equipment. Funny how they are still specifying "Hi-Resolution 704x480", I don't think you can buy equipment at that resolution anymore. They do mention IP cameras, which I think would be best. Distribution they recommend wired, as some sites can get some interference in any wireless but they did mention wifi transmission. All of the balun use would be for a coax system (whether analog, or newer HD over coax) using cat5/6 cabling. Or....just use IP then it will be over cat5/6. Obviously a boat camera will be wireless. Hi powered Wifi bridge set up well should work fine, unless there is some interference.
  • EricKelleyEricKelley Posts: 299 Crazy Baller
    One other thing to consider with decisions about your tech set up is redundancy. If something goes down, your tournament stops. Is a must with all the wireless equipment and this adds a great deal of cost. I ran two record tournaments the past 2 years and gave the wireless equipment a chance and it was a pain. During the last round the rope and handle destroyed the boat camera and wiring. Would have thought that was a low probability to happen, but it did. Generator with unclean power destroyed two wireless receivers before we figured it out. Most of the wireless components we found that were in my budget seemed to be to fragile and under engineered for the task.
    This is a great question to ask on the board. Im sure if your budget is big, there is a good answer.
    Rob
  • RobRob Posts: 66 Baller
    I think Eric makes a good point; reliability above all else.

    In my perfect little world where money is of no concern, I would love a setup that is completely mobile and with additional gear to feed all cameras into a van that has an operator selecting which feed to take, overlays the necessary graphics to announce current competitor, has the mics to have it properly announced and with all this mixed and recorded for posterity just like an NHL game or other live sporting event. A live stream output option would be great too.
  • ScottScottScottScott Posts: 1,068 Mega Baller
    Wired will always be more reliable, and with the distances needed fiber would be the best choice. Of course wired isn't an option for the boat cam.
  • RobRob Posts: 66 Baller
    I suspect fiber would also be required to support an HD feed from each of the wired cams, which you'd definitely want. Again...if money was no concern ;)

    Perhaps a more budget oriented approach: https://www.switcherstudio.com/ (I just found this via google, no affiliation). Might be worth a closer look!
  • ScottScottScottScott Posts: 1,068 Mega Baller
    Fiber isn't necessary for HD. There are HD cameras that work over network that can be distributed over cat6 cable and multiple switches or wifi, and HD over coax cameas. But with the kind of cable lenghts needed to cover a ski lake, things can get shakey. The cost of the fiber it-self isnt bad. For network use, the switches/routers that will accept fiber are a little more expensive currently. But those should start coming down in price soon.
  • addkerraddkerr Posts: 180 Baller
    Bumping an old thread. Anyone had a better solution for longer range gate cameras/ recording and review set up. I'm still rocking with analogue cctv cameras into a DVR. I feel there is a way better system to be made.
  • klindyklindy Posts: 2,590 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Remember the equipment list on the USAWS website targets a MINIMUM solution. There are certainly better (and more expensive) ways to make things work.
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Chairman of the Board
    AWSA Southern Region EVP
  • ClydesdaleClydesdale Posts: 171 Baller
    I helped wire the lake at Swiss last year. HD over coax was tough. Signal loss required boosters mid-cable for the gate cameras. After realizing that, we used the analog signal for the boat path so we wouldn’t need 3 or 4 boosters. (Every where you add a booster you need power).
  • mmosley899mmosley899 Posts: 688 Water Ski Industry Professional
    If the drone that @Laz mentions has that good of video output, perhaps you could just set the drone in the boat for boat video. But the one drone probably cost more than all my analog video cameras and coax cables.

    I am still using the old style cameras and coax. It seems to be the most reliable and inexpensive way to go. But I would love to go to a local WiFi network and digital cameras. I just haven’t tried to figure it all out...
    Mike's Overall Binding www.mobsystemrelease.com
    Sweet Home Alabama Skiing
    Senior Judge, Senior Driver, Tech Controller
    jayski
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