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Evaluate my skiing

ScarletArrowScarletArrow Posts: 817 Crazy Baller
edited July 2010 in Videos, Photos & Media
<p>
Here's some video from a couple of weeks ago when a few of us got together and held and informal ski clinic.
</p>
<p>
 Each of us skied and we took video from the boat and from the shore. This is a typical set...please give your honest insight and opinions.
</p>
<p>
Thanks!
</p>
<p>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcKMWvC8nVg">Link</a>
</p>
Anthony Warren

Comments

  • BoodyBoody Posts: 613 Baller
    <p>
    You look pretty good, you are athletic with good balance.  In addition to what Brent said, your compressed position is causing the ski to be unstable, too far behind you in the wake, and too far on the tail in the turn.  Your goal is to get your elbows against your vest thru the wake, with your core (hips, mass, etc) leading the pull.  When you finish the turn, get your arms against your vest, hips over your feet and just let the boat do the work, don't pull, twist, etc. 
    </p>
    <p>
    Your butt is too far back all the time, especially behind the boat.  Your shoulders are nice and level which is why you look as smooth as you do, so continue to do that.
    </p>
    <p>
    Your turns look pretty good but to take it to the next level you need to stand taller and get on your front foot. 
    </p>
    <p>
    Keep at it, you are closer than you think.
    </p>
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,209 Administrator
    <p class="MsoNormal">
    <span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS'; color: #062971; font-size: 10.5pt">What the guys said.... I like to think of getting taller on the ski. You need your chin further from your feet at all times. At the wakes you are losing a lot because your back leg is collapsed. Extending your legs will move your hips over your feet and then you will be powerful. </span>
    </p>

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  • ScarletArrowScarletArrow Posts: 817 Crazy Baller
    <p>
    Thanks guys, I knew I could count on you for help.
    </p>
    <p>
    My ski is an '09 D3 Custom X 66.5 - I'm 6' 155 lbs.
    </p>
    <p>
    So does "compressed postion" = bad? 
    </p>
    <p>
    Are you saying I should extend my knees (straight leg) more...through the turn...while crossing the wake?
    </p>
    <p>
    I really appreciate the help, I feel like I've stalled out here at 4 @ 22 and want to get better.
    </p>
    <p>
    Anthony
    </p>
    Anthony Warren
  • BoodyBoody Posts: 613 Baller
    <p>
    I think the ski looks good on you.
    </p>
    <p>
    Some skiers can pull off a compressed style but their hips are up to the handle.  You are only about 5'2" and should strive to be 6' tall the entire time you ski, especially in the turn.  I was going to mention something about your legs but I thought it would be too much.  Your goal is not to absorb the wake with your legs and hips, but to slice thru it by being in a good locked position (arms to vest, hips up, shoulders level, mass leading).  You don't have to pull against the boat, just set the position and let it happen.  You can relax your legs after the wake to assist with edge change, but you are relaxing your legs at the first wake.   
    </p>
    <p>
    As you come off the wake, just think about getting taller and doing everything else you are already doing.  Your legs will be staighter but not locked and NOT pushing the ski.  You want to ride the front of the ski thru the turn. 
    </p>
    <p>
    I don't think your turns are the problem, its your wake crossings.  If you can get that figured out, you will be on fire.
    </p>
  • RogerRoger Posts: 1,587 Mega Baller
    <p>
    I would add two more things to work on, especially if you're skiing Zero Off boats.
    </p>
    <p>
    1) Your pull out for the gate looks good in that your shoulders are open to the boat (or downcourse if you like), however you are spiking the system by pulling out so hard. Strive to pull out with less load on the line (take a longer easier path to your starting width). In that way, ZO will maintain a constant speed rather than speeding up to counter your pullout and then starting it's slowdown phase just as you start your turn-in. When that happens, the system reacts too hard and you get zinged through the gate.
    </p>
    <p>
    2) Pull up wider on the boat. At 55k, it appears you're skiing more towards the 1 ball rather than outbound through the gates. The whole pass looks like a bit of a late line. If there is a bimini on the boat, the camara should see you in front of the rear straps.
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    Roger B. Clark - Okeeheelee skier. Senior driver, Senior Judge
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,209 Administrator
    Ditto above

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  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,645 Mega Baller
    edited July 2010
    <p>
    In general, I agree with everything being said above.  But let me give you some slightly different language on how to "fix" your problems (which I think are very fixable).  Every person's relationship between brain and muscle movement is different, so sometimes a different way of thinking about the same thing can be helpful. At the risk of repeating myself, I'm not giving you any different <em>advice</em> compared to above, just a different way of thinking about it.  If this makes less sense to you, please ignore it!
    </p>
    <p>
    Begin by focusing on what your hip is doing as you finish the turn.  Currently, your hip is one of the last parts of your body to finish the turn.  The result is that it trails your center of gravity all the way across the wakes, resulting in suboptimal leverage (or suboptimal angle -- focus on whichever one makes more sense to you).  Instead you want to initiate the turn with your hip.  The "old school" way of describing this is to ski your hip right back to the handle (and THEN regrab it).  New schoolers actually drop their hips toward the ball a bit, and ultimately end up with the handle almost down by their knees -- so they don't use this terminology, but nevertheless you need to get your hips to come all the way around such that your entire lower body is leading the way across -- NOT trailing.
    </p>
    <p>
    Knee bend is fine -- some great skiers bend their knees tremendously.  Just don't allow that knee bend to be combined with "sitting down" and thus removing the largest muscles in your body from the equation.
    </p>
    <p>
    I strongly advise practicing this on shore.  Experiment with different knee bends and hip positions and you should be able to feel which ones give you more leverage.
    </p>
    <p>
    I'll close by agreeing with another thing everybody else said:  You look pretty good.  You only need subtle adjustments, but subtle adjustments can take a lot of time and focus to become routine.
    </p>
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • ScarletArrowScarletArrow Posts: 817 Crazy Baller
    <p>
    Guys...this is fascinating stuff, here I thought my primary problem was my turns!
    </p>
    <p>
    1 - Roger, you're the 2nd person to point out the negative 1 pulling too hard.  What are you seeing?  I pull out when the nose of the boat hits the 55's, and I pull about 3 - 5 feet past the buoy line.  How do I pull out farther AND softer?
    </p>
    <p>
    I find that if I pull too hard I can't get the ski to slow down enoung during my glide, then when I roll in for the gates the rope drops (slack) and I'm toast.
    </p>
    <p>
    2 - Boody thanks for the clarification!
    </p>
    Anthony Warren
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,645 Mega Baller
    <p>
    "here I thought my primary problem was my turns!"
    </p>
    <p>
    Most people do.  Turns are where all previous errors finally bite you.  But for a skier working into shortline for the first time, the relative weakpoint is nearly always pull position.  We've all been there.
    </p>
    <p>
    "How do I pull out farther AND softer?"
    </p>
    <p>
    There are a lot of schools of thought on this, but one thing that I always work on is staying on the left edge until I commit to turning into the gates.  This helps get and maintain width without having to wail on it.  I haven't figured out how to do this consistently at -38, though.  I'm "stuck" with a hard pullout once the rope gets that short.
    </p>
    <p>
    And that reminds me: In the end, we're all working on the same stuff -- it's just a matter of degree.
    </p>
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • Thomas WayneThomas Wayne Posts: 550 New Baller
    edited July 2010
    <p>
    "[...] <em>I pull out when the nose of the boat hits
    the 55's, and I pull about 3 - 5 feet past the buoy line.  How do I
    pull out farther AND softer?</em>"
    </p>
    <p>
    This exact question came up at Palm Beach Training Center last time I was there, and Chet Raley answered it perfectly.  He said: "Just point your ski a little wider, so you ski on a more outbound path."  In other words... well actually, you don't need other words - when you initiate your pullout, just point your ski outward toward a spot further up-course than you have been.
    </p>
    <p>
    TW
    </p>
  • RogerRoger Posts: 1,587 Mega Baller
    <p>
    Where you begin the pullout may well vary some from mine, but I pull out when the bow of the boat is about 1 boat length from the 55s. The way I judge this is to stand just outside the left lip of the wake and when the right hand gate ball lines up with the 5 ball, I begin the move left.
    </p>
    <p>
    Width, go as wide as you can. At 15 or 22 off, you can get way more than 3 to 5 feet wider than the course. Don't worry about too much speed through the gate, if you start wide and drop smoothly into the lean through the gates, you will be cast so far out that you will finish the turn on the back side of the buoy. Everyone I've ever convince to start VERY wide on the boat came back saying how much SLOWER it seemed they were going at the one ball. It's not that they were slower though the gate, but the cast out allowed the ski to work properly to drop them naturally into the one ball turn. I've sat in the boat for some of the worlds best skiers and I can tell you that they all start way wider than the average club skier (I was rope handler in the boat when Andy Mapple tied the world record of 1 @ 43 in 2000 at Okeeheelee).
    </p>
    <p>
    When you first go up wider, you might have a tendency to turn in harder. Resist that and instead turn in earlier and slower. Once you get it right, you will hardly feel the pull of the boat and you will feel very wide and slow at the 1 ball.
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    Roger B. Clark - Okeeheelee skier. Senior driver, Senior Judge
  • RogerRoger Posts: 1,587 Mega Baller
    edited July 2010
    <p>
    Check out Chris Parrish and where he starts from (sorry that you have to wade through the promotional stuff first). He always starts from in front of the bimini rear straps regardless of the rope length. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5_A6lN4qHY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5_A6lN4qHY</a>
    </p>
    <p>
    Compare where he starts with where he normally executes his turn on that side. It's slightly (but only slightly) further back than his normal turn; this is due to the slower speed of the glide turn-in compared to an in-course turn.
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    Roger B. Clark - Okeeheelee skier. Senior driver, Senior Judge
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,645 Mega Baller
    Also, do everything else that Chris Parrish does! :)
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,108
    <p>
    Anthony,
    </p>
    <p>
    Mueller has me going out at 15 off/34 until I'm cleaning 32 off more often so I am a good comparison. I start my rollout outbound when the boat is 1 1/2 lengths from the 55's. I'm easily 15 ft outside the buoy line in my glide at 15 off. At 32off, I'm 2-3 outside the buoy line. This puts me about the center of the engine cover or higher on the pylon as I turn in.  When you turn in from this wide, you will have to adjust your timing on when you initiate the turn in. But you will feel way slow as you round the buoy. This will also allow you to have an actual preturn with space between you and the buoy when the ski makes it's arc back downcourse. As it is, you ski at the buoy, turn, ski at the next buoy, turn, etc.  There doesn't appear to be any space. Here's a trick he taught me. If you snap the ski up out of the pullout into the glide, it's going to accelerate. So how you rise out of the pullout has a big effect on your glide speed. You can use this to your advantage in a headwind/tailwind. Headwind, you snap it up. Tailwind you roll it up. You can also use this if you realize as you roll outbound that you pulled out late or even too early to modulate your glide speed.
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    <p>
    Like Roger said, it's really interesting when watching from the boat at how wide the elite level skiers get on the pullout. I watched one go out at 15 off 32mph in April. He was pylon high on the boat with the rope bowed around the bimini strap. And he edge changed between the first wake and centerline and just rode the line tension outbound.  That's maintaining your angle and direction!
    </p>
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,026 Mega Baller
    I think the biggest thing you need to fix is your body position. Your arms are away from your body which causes you to get pulled up straight at the faster speeds/shorter lines. At 22 off you are almost flat at the wakes and the ski is bouncing in the air. You can see the whole fin on most wake crossings. If you can get the arms pinned to the vest and the hips up to the handle you are going to generate more speed and width and the turns will take care of themselves.

    On the gates I go when the nose of the boat hits the right hand boat guide and I try to got smooth so I don't load the boat.

    You have improved a lot keep at it.
    Mark Shaffer
  • ScarletArrowScarletArrow Posts: 817 Crazy Baller
    thanks everyone...I went out yesterday and skied one set. main focus was keeping ski on edge through the 2nd wake and the handle down. while i didn't suddenly run 28off, I did feel like i had measured improvement in my 34/15 pass - i was early to each ball, where normally i know i'm not. thanks again!
    Anthony Warren
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