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Manon Costard rear binding

JayproJaypro Posts: 307 Crazy Baller
What is Manon using?
«1

Comments

  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 3,821 Mega Baller
    Bicycle inner tube on a really basic rtp?
  • WishWish Posts: 7,860 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Home made RTP with heal strap.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • sheskis7sheskis7 Posts: 47 Baller
    The heel strap off a trick handle works great, lasts a long time
  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,041
    I use a kite board foot loop, they are made of bungy with a padded sleeve.
    Bob Grizzi
  • dchristmandchristman Posts: 1,089 Mega Baller
    It's a slingback slipper, obviously!
    Is it time to ski, yet?
    WishDirtskialex
  • mwetskiermwetskier Posts: 1,329 Mega Baller
    the most important thing a rear binding can do is keep your back leg from flopping around and dragging in the turn, so it looks like her set up will work just fine.
  • mmosley899mmosley899 Posts: 603 Water Ski Industry Professional
    @mwetskier I disagree, the most important thing a rear binding can do is let your foot come out freely if your front boot releases!
    Mike's Overall Binding www.mobsystemrelease.com
    Sweet Home Alabama Skiing
    Senior Judge, Senior Driver, Tech Controller
    WishWaterSkier12
  • HortonHorton Posts: 27,900 Administrator
    edited June 2018
    That's strap makes a lot of sense. If I were to use a kicker I think I would do the same thing. The thing I like about it is it increases the consistency how tightly her foot is in the kicker.

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    Wishschaferskibug
  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 2,035 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited June 2018
    Agree with @Horton one reservation though, I use to modify my rtp so that my foot was real deep into the rtp, then I had one of those moments when the ski went out in front of me when I was on the back of the ski and in the air, front foot came out rear did not, the ski propellered and done my knee real bad.
    But Manon is a much better skier than I am.

    When The Going Gets Tough, Get Stoked !

    ScottScott
  • OldboyIIOldboyII Posts: 586 Solid Baller
    edited June 2018
    Year ago I was about to make a strap attached to rtp with dual lock or velcro (for safety reason) may be will make it this season. Do not like fore-aft movement in rtp.
  • skialexskialex Posts: 912 Crazy Baller
    @OldboyII dual lock will raise your RTP 5mm, you will definitely feel the difference, not saying you shouldn't try it.
  • OldboyIIOldboyII Posts: 586 Solid Baller
    edited June 2018
    @skialex I mean strap will be attached to rtp via dual lock or velcro.
    Planning to make strap not much stretchy so it will disconnect when needed
  • HortonHorton Posts: 27,900 Administrator
    so Reflex front Wiley rear is a deathtrap?

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  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,041
    Been using this set up since 2007 or 2008....but I have Fluid Motion Evo series FB. I cannot count the number of times it has saved me from a one in one out situation, and probably certain injury, especially on tail blow outs. It has never been the culprit of injury (knock on wood) up to this point. I have almost always come out in an OTF situation and when I didn't it was of no consequence due to the inherent looseness of an RTP. I would not ski an RTP without some type of heal strap.
    Bob Grizzi
    mcskier41
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 3,821 Mega Baller
    edited June 2018
    Would anyone be interested in having a custom footbed for their RTP? That being a milled out EVA blank of either a right or left foot that you would have to cut the eva and glue it onto the plate and replace your rubber top strap? This would be a custom "cup" with a perimeter of ~1/2" or so of foam such that your heel would have a pocket to sit, some arch/foot contour and you could cut/sand it to the dimensions you wanted. Just curious.

  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,479 Mega Baller
    edited June 2018
    @Horton Obviously that was partly sarcasm, but no. Waterskiing just isn't that dangerous.

    However, it's certainly possible to have a setup that makes it safer, and it's even possible to have a setup that makes it pretty unsafe. Imagine for a moment a front boot that is set much too loose and a rear boot that cannot release. It's pretty certain that eventually that will cause an injury, although even in that exagerated case, it might take a while to get hurt.

    Personally, I'm not a big fan of the Reflex/Wiley setup you mention. I think it may even be less safe overall than the famous @Wish setup that was completely non-releasable. But in the grand scheme of risks, I wouldn't say it's super-dangerous.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
    Wish
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 3,821 Mega Baller
    edited June 2018
    @Than_Bogan I've seen the tight rear loose front result in a tib/fib fx of the back leg AND the tail of the ski split open their scalp. So for sure that's not a good recipe. My thought with dual non-release is your only real injury is going to be front ankle fractures from pegging the ball or Achilles related injuries on nose grabs but I think it would be relatively safer from the huge traumatic fractures.

    I used FM quattro dual boots in both the single plate and split sole plate configuration and there was only one front ankle injury which I suspect would have been prevented if the front boot had a reflex style check strap. After pegging a ball my cuff was physically stuck on the lower ears of the shell and I had to remove the ankle joint screws to get the cuff returned to proper position.
  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 2,035 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I like the Marahajh Heel cup idea would be better if it was moulded plastic and less height, something a bit more robust, I might have to get the Polymorph out and see if I can manufacture something.
    I do not have one but I suppose you maybe able to 3d print something.

    When The Going Gets Tough, Get Stoked !

  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,964 Mega Baller
    @jimski the torque on a trick ski isn't nearly as great as the what you see on a slalom ski. It is probably still more risky than a regular RTP but less risky than it would be on a slalom ski.
    Mark Shaffer
    OldboyII
  • skialexskialex Posts: 912 Crazy Baller
    @OldboyII not a bad idea at all. Just don't rely on dual lock's adhesive. Use bolts, washers and nuts (or rivets) to attach one side to the plastic loop bases and and the other on your not so stretchy strap.
    Make a few, you are gona lose some anyway.
    OldboyII
  • dchristmandchristman Posts: 1,089 Mega Baller
    For those that don't read manuals, here's what Reflex says. It seems that many use this setup, but I wonder if they even know that Reflex advises against it.

    Is it time to ski, yet?
  • HortonHorton Posts: 27,900 Administrator
    @dchristman yes it would be unsafe to use a full-height stiff High wrap binding with reflex. You hardly if ever see that. Reflex plus R Style or lose Wiley or a kicker is pretty standard and as safe as anything. I am perplexed that anyone thinks Manon's binding is odd or unsafe

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  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,041
    not odd and definitely safer than without rear heal strap
    Bob Grizzi
  • GloersenGloersen Posts: 920 Crazy Baller
    The reason being that not all strap modifications that one might try are the same. For those with less experience that assume all may be safe, a blanket statement affirming such on a forum may be a disservice.

    @skibug describes a strap (thicker/less stretchy?) that may work well if it doesn’t stretch too much or stay riding high over the calcaneus upon heel lift or approaching OTF.

    In my situation a tension band was used of medium grade. It was positioned and appeared similar to what is pictured with M. Costard. The strap would just stay up high above the calcaneus with heel lift, but with OTF or attempt to pull the heel out with flexion, release was substantially impaired. The band would just rotate up at its fixation point and not allow the foot to come out easily. Secure, but certainly not safer. If the band was fixed in place at the back to limit upward range, maybe release would have been more favorable.

    Don’t know exactly what Manon is using regarding material or its inherent qualities, so difficult to accurately speculate, but it’s good to have a forum for those to share experience and offer “imo”s.
    OldboyIIdchristman
  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,041

    This is what I use. I use the middle screw that holds down the rubber toe strap and slip either the middle or forward hole in the nylon webbing of the Dakine strap over that screw (on both sides); then clamp/sandwich everything back together.


    Bob Grizzi
  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,041
    The Dakine straps are meant to be toe straps for a kite board or something of the like. In my searches for an image I found these actual heal straps, called Duo Heal Straps, that looks like something that would work too.


    Bob Grizzi
  • HortonHorton Posts: 27,900 Administrator
    @skibug that looks like something completely different. What Manon has on her binding makes sense to me because it looks like it gives her some security but she can step out easily if she wants. those Dakine heel straps look like you would not be able to get out without reaching now with your fingers and popping It Off. That seems super dangerous.

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