Help needed how to learn offside Back Wrap?

gsm_peter

Trying to learn trick skiing ( … at my age =0/ )
It is time to start to learn offside Back Wrap.
Grateful for some learning steps


Background. My tricks are now:
-SS, R
-Back-Front, R
-O reverse O (sometimes).
-Wake 180 Back wrap to Front.
-Wake 180 Front to Back Wrap.

I can ski Back Wrap and regular Back as long as I want.
Crossing wakes in back position are far from stable but slowly getting better.

Can prepare for a wrapped WO but not make the trick. It is a bit hard to ski in that position a longer time.
Try to glide over the wake without air and unwrap.
Training on Step over Line. Can easily lift the leg over the rope but get stuck in SS position and I am also bending my waist and fall.

It is hard to find a release person for Toes but I can now put on the harness and ski as long as I want.
When I turn back I bend my waist and fall.

When I train I normally perform all my safe tricks a few times and then my harder tricks.
In the end I try a few wrapped WO or Steps.

Gus

There are various good tips about learning the offsite backwrap on this forum. One I picked up from here is to do it outside of the wake. Left foot forward: Passenger side. Its easier to hold the awkward position outside the wake with a bit of an angle. Other tips I saw: handle low (but not too low); and 'use a bigger handle in the beginning'. I didn't have much success with any of those tips, but I also don't spend too much of my skiing time on it. It becomes relevant to gain a bit of time with a fast BB and WBB (instead of the slightly slower O's) and later with the reverse W5F. For me the 'do it outside the wake' tip seems to work best.
You're well on track! Just keep going! One thing that can really make a big difference in Tricks is to ski at least once every day for about a week.

klindy

Reverse back wrap - like @Gus said, try it outside the wake. Also initially I like to have the skier hold rhe handle low (below your butt). It makes holding the position a bit easier but the idea is to hold it there then “stand up” and slowly move the handle to the small of your back. The goal is to feel the muscles you need to hold it there. You shouldn’t need to do it this want too many times. Just to get that muscle memory.

For the Line Back - if your getting stuck in the SS position that’s a sure sign you’re stepping “with your foot”. Rather try to make the step over with your knee. A visualization I’ve heard several times is to imagine a male dog peeing on a fire hydrant. That makes you lesd with your leg and keep your hips forward.

For the TB, when you turn backwards pick a tree or watch the horizon. Keep your shoulders up and bend your knee.

Bruce_Butterfield

For the LB, it’s better to start with the “cheater LB”. Start facing fwd and place your free leg over the rope like you are sitting in a chair with your legs crossed. Then simply turn back and hold your free hand up like you are waving to the crowd and let your toes drop down to the water. It’s much easier this way to stay upright since you aren’t pulling as much as you turn. Note that this way will not count since the leg has to go over at the same time as you turn, but is a valuable way to learn.

The LF is actually very easy. Simply stay tall then kick yourself in the butt as you turn front.

When you get ready for the real LB, the “kick yourself in the butt” method helps get the knee over first and is easier to stay up tall.

And lots of dry land practice for all new tricks

eleeski

@Bruce_Butterfield Do not teach LB that way! They learn to lead with the step foot if they do that. Wrong! The ski leads, followed by the step knee (only). The foot only touches well after the trick is done (but before the next trick starts). The touch should not be simultaneous if you want it fast and consistent.

I start LB with my step leg foot behind my ski foot dragging with the water hitting the top of my foot. As I pull, level, turn the trick, I fold up my step leg (my knee isn't lifted or forced down, it's just bent as much as it goes comfortably). My hands are comfortably in - not forced low. All my step knee has to do is barely clear the rope as my ski hip drives the turn. The rope might drag across the step leg, that's fine. Finish the turn with the ski. As long as your knee is over the rope by then you have met the "rope between the legs in the back position" requirement. Stabilize the LB position with the back of the hand against the middle of the inside of the step leg thigh and the toes in the water somewhat toward the boat from the ski foot. Rope control comes from pushing your step leg against your hand while you keep a good axis. Don't let the handle pull through your legs.

Dry land practice!

LF just fold up the leg comfortably and drive your ski hips to front. Don't stress over the step leg, if your knee is bent you will clear the rope. Don't lead with the step leg.

Stepovers are fun, flashy and undervalued. Good tricks to learn. But they are old guy tricks. Kids should spend the time learning flips. Old guys point grub with line tricks. Why is my run full of line tricks?

Eric

klindy

@eleeski remember the LB is no credit unless the free foot touches the water in the back position. Just trying to clarify the "as long as your knee is over the rope by then you have met the 'rope between the legs in the back position'" comment you made above.

Bruce_Butterfield

@eleeski the cheater LB is only to get use to being backwards without bending over from the pull like a beginner would do. Less than half a dozen times then on to the real thing. It’s only a stepping stone.

eleeski

@klindy A touch is required. But the touch does not have to be simultaneous with the turn. Just the knee over before the turn is complete is required. A late step makes a smoother trick. Touch to start the LF. If you touch right as you get to back, the trick is stilted, ugly and inconsistent.

@Bruce_Butterfield Resting your foot on the rope develops a terrible habit of leading with the step foot. I've seen it really hold back some skiers. Others can overcome it but it takes work.

A better way to start is to just do one footed backs. Put your back foot on top of the back binding, turn to full back (the easy backwrap direction), take your foot off the ski and turn front. Get comfortable with that and do the turn to back with the foot off. Great prep trick that doesn't teach bad habits.

Eric