When A Transgender Athlete Breaks The Women's Slalom Record

ozskiozski Posts: 1,719
edited March 2019 in News & Other Stuff
There has been some press recently about transgender athletes and how they are classified. Martina Navratilova has been dealing with some heat for suggesting a transgender athlete would have an unfair advantage which got me thinking about how water skiing might deal with T-Gas putting on a wig one day and smashing the womens slalom record or Ryan putting on a skirt and smashing the womens jump record - sounds crazy but the way we are heading this sort of scenario might just play out one day. Imagine how you feel as the record holder that gets broken... crazy world. I wonder if the drugs in sport rule could or should be used in some way..


Martina Navratilova, the former world number one tennis champion, has apologised for suggesting athletes who “cynically change gender” to win trophies in women’s sports would be “cheating”.

Navratilova, a long-term champion of equality in sport, said she was sorry for causing offence by the use of the word “cheat”, but stood by her concerns about transgender athletes in competitive sport.

After being accused of transphobia, she was dropped as an ambassador of an LGBT group which condemned her “deeply troubling comments” calling for further debate of the physical advantages of athletes born as men competing against women.

Other female sports stars including swimmer Sharron Davies have increasingly come forward to support an open debate about athletes born in male bodies competing with women, warning that in “some sports it could be truly dangerous”.

“To protect women’s sport, those with a male sex advantage should not be able to compete in women’s sport,” Davies said.

The comments and apology have followed furious debate over the issue of transgender people in sport, with Navratilova the highest-profile athlete so far to call for rules which ensure “girls and women who were born female are competing on as level a playing field as possible within their sport”.

After first airing her thoughts on Twitter earlier this year, Navratilova wrote in a newspaper: "To put the argument at its most basic: a man can decide to be female, take hormones if required by whatever sporting organisation is concerned, win everything in sight and perhaps earn a small fortune, and then reverse his decision and go back to making babies.

“It's insane and it's cheating."

In a blog post, she has now described how she “certainly stumbled into a hornets’ nest”, receiving a “barrage of quite nasty personal attacks”.

“I know that my use of the word ‘cheat’ caused particular offence among the transgender community,” she said. “I’m sorry for that because I certainly was not suggesting that transgender athletes in general are cheats.

“I attached the label to a notional case in which someone cynically changes gender, perhaps temporarily, to gain a competitive advantage.

“We should not be blind to the possibility and some of these rules are making that possible and legal.”

She added: “What I really wanted to do was try to open up the debate about equality and fairness in relation to transgender participation in women’s sport.

“There were too many voices that were silenced and shamed into submission and that is not right.

“My aim was to encourage a more scientific, rather than emotional, conversation and to search for a solution that would work better than current arrangements.

“I was motivated by concern about the future of women’s sport and my worry that by trying to be fair and inclusive for one group, others can be adversely affected, that eliminating one kind of discrimination can inadvertently give rise to another.”

Saying it was “obvious that men have certain inherent physiological advantages over women”, Navratilova called for “fair and open discussions can be held without preconceptions or prejudice, and without people being vilified as ‘transphobic’”.

Sportswomen including Dame Kelly Holmes, Sally Gunnell and Paula Radcliffe have joined discussion of the issue on their social media platforms, sharing news reports and calling for further debate.



'Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.'' 2021 MC As soon as it lands Water Ski Equipment - KD Platinum

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Comments

  • ozskiozski Posts: 1,719
    Bring it. And let Jacinta have a crack at the male jumpers too.
    'Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.'' 2021 MC As soon as it lands Water Ski Equipment - KD Platinum

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  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 2,022 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    Why is it getting so warm? And what are we doing in this handbasket?
    I'm Ancient. WTH do I know?
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  • HortonHorton Posts: 31,491 Administrator
    Can somebody show me the rule in the rule book that prevents me from claiming to identify as a woman and skiing women's 4?

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  • Bookm_danoBookm_dano Posts: 100 Baller
    Well, I could easily have made second place in the nationals last year if I was a 12 year old girl!
    slowliquid dski6jonesBulldog
  • HortonHorton Posts: 31,491 Administrator
    @Bookm_dano I'm pretty sure this thread is not about time travel

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  • gregygregy Posts: 2,590 Mega Baller
    @horton Grow you out again and you're in.
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 4,968 Mega Baller
    @Horton just so long as you don't go out for the Stokes ads.
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  • DWDW Posts: 2,408 Mega Baller
    Simple solution: 3 brackets, men, women, transgender. Problem solved.
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  • skidawgskidawg Posts: 3,475 Mega Baller
    I’m w/ @liquid d
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  • DWDW Posts: 2,408 Mega Baller
  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 2,022 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    edited March 2019
    @liquid d how is “ when you were younger” different from now? Except of course for the beer belly and receding hairline.

    Oh, never mind. I forgot about the gorilla suit.
    I'm Ancient. WTH do I know?
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  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,983 Mega Baller
    This may turn into a serious issue for women's sports. Testosterone is a pretty huge advantage in a lot of sports, to the point that I as an old man learning pole vault am fairly competitive with the best high school girls.

    And the effects of testosterone linger on for a quite a while even if the supply is cut off. So my honest guess is that women's sports will have to have rules preventing the "use" of testosterone (broadly defined to include being male at the time) over a relatively long period prior to competing as a woman.

    In my mind, this parallels the ban on other anabolic steroids. It's going to be delicate and at times some people are gonna be pissed, but there is also HUGE value in women's sports, and therefore they are worth preserving even with some pain along the way.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
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  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 4,001 Infinite Pandas
    At a recent Junior Worlds, the top male tricker would have placed fourth if all scores were combined. The gender gap is shrinking!

    Sailing, equestrian, drag racing and many other sports have no gender separation and are entertaining to watch or compete in. Maybe we are too hung up on the records and purity of the events to just enjoy them as sport and recognize exceptional performances.

    Wait, what am I saying? Women's beach volleyball is way more fun to watch than the men. (Come on, it's the tactics and skill of the women's game that is more fun than just the power of the men's game - what did you think I meant?) Some sports need to stay segregated.

    Eric
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  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 2,308 ★★★★Quad Panda Award Recipient ★★★★
    So what about the bandwagon shouting we want equality, seems some people want to pick and choose

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  • ski6jonesski6jones Posts: 1,199 Mega Baller
    Her point is exactly right. The rules don't prevent it, and apparently/unfortunately they need to. Already happening in HS sport.
    Carl Addington, Lakes of Katy, Texas
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  • bigtex2011bigtex2011 Posts: 643 Crazy Baller
    Hmm. So @ozski are you thinking in a sport that is shrinking that some one may choose slalom skiing: train for 10 years and attempt break a record.

    The publicity would probably be good for AWSA.

    Horton would get more web hits.
  • DekeDeke Posts: 408 Baller
    What if the "Open" class was for anyone?
    eleeskiThan_BoganIGski
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 4,001 Infinite Pandas
    Changing genders is a huge step driven by immense pressures and needs. It carries lots of anguish and stigma. If a person gets comfort and fulfillment by waterskiing, that's great. Maybe even more important to someone going through a gender change. I hope we can accept and support people whatever their situation may be.

    Eric
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  • skidawgskidawg Posts: 3,475 Mega Baller
    have to agree with @Horton as painful as it is. Like the transgenderwhatever who fought women in the ufc and destroyed the competition. It is a genetic unfair advantage. women with women parts would have to supplement testosterone heavily to compete.
    NWA....Heaven on earth!
    matthewbrown
  • ToddFToddF Posts: 604 Solid Baller
    What if Bruce decided to become caitlyn back in the 70's, or better yet do all his records he set, get to retro count as women's records?

    @bigtex2011 Bruce was a pretty good skier what if he decided to go back into the womens 6 or 7 he might be in now. That possibility is more real than you think.






  • HortonHorton Posts: 31,491 Administrator
    @matthewbrown women's 4 not woman's 5. Not yet at least

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  • The_MSThe_MS Posts: 6,492 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    Male lesbian= woman trapped inside a mans body that loves the female anatomy
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  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 4,001 Infinite Pandas
    @matthewbrown Actually biological oddities do exist. There are chromosome abnormalities causing disagreement about the eligibility of an elite runner. A little different as she was identified as female at birth and has not changed but strict biological assessments ate inconclusive. It's political now.

    Transgender people have motivations far deeper than moving from #50 to #15 on the world rankings. They have an extraordinarily difficult path in today's world. Athletics, especially amateur athletics like waterskiing, can offer so much to them. Differences don't need to be dividing.

    Eric
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