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Help me run 32 off

arigold22arigold22 Posts: 47 Baller
edited May 2019 in Technique & Theory
I'm looking for a few tips to help me run 32 off. I often have a good start and 1 ball but struggle coming into 2 ball. Based on the video below, anything I should focus on to get me further down the course?


  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,056 Mega Baller
    I would say try to get a little more width or maintain the width you have on your gate. Next I would like to see more intensity into the first wake to generate more speed and width into one ball. It looks to me like you are going easy into the wakes and you feel like one ball is fine but you are coming in a little slow and narrow which makes 2 ball very difficult.
    Mark Shaffer
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,589 Mega Baller
    Somewhere I was reading Chris Rossi said he tried to run every pass in practice. He'd slow the boat a little in hardest pass. I slowed to 32 mph 32 off lately a few times and I think it helps. Once I can run 32 mph I'll speed back up.
  • ReallyGottaSkiReallyGottaSki Posts: 189 Baller
    edited May 2019
    Consider check out the frames on the 1-2 cut where you are exactly centerline to the boat, just before, and frames just after
    Appeared you shut down the pull right at centerline. this will also destroy your width and push your apex downcourse
    observe how your shoulders are almost crossing the wake first, quickly followed by your ankles, lastly your hips. Hips behind, the power is elusive
    #2 preturn looks heavy on the rear foot
    A same or even less peak power applied over a longer period will produce more cross-wake speed, more width, pull the apex upcourse, and allow a controlled pre-turn
  • arigold22arigold22 Posts: 47 Baller
    I really appreciate the advice. Seems to always come back to those darn gates. I'll try to work on keeping my hips to the handle as I turn into my gate and all the way to the buoy. I have always tried to think about turning into my gate slowly and over my front foot but maybe that's leading to my hips dropping back? I've also had a hard time carrying the handle all the way to the buoy without pulling too long. Any tricks to separate the two?
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 4,487 Mega Baller
    @arigold22 Can you run -28 four times in a row ?
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
  • arigold22arigold22 Posts: 47 Baller
    @RichardDoane I don't think I've ever tried. I've run it twice in a row but typically move up after that.
  • arigold22arigold22 Posts: 47 Baller
    @ReallyGottaSki Interesting way to think about it. I like the physiology references in your comment, really helpful for me. I'm going to try to focus on those things each time I get up and hopefully build some better habits!
  • jhughesjhughes Posts: 1,085 Mega Baller
    @arigold22 it takes one to know one so I'm giving you advice from someone roughly in the same place. You have to get back to the basics, well voiced by @ReallyGottaSki above. The answer is you'll most likely never run -32 with that body alignment, and it'll take some focus and determination to reset your technique and "feel" good alignment. Otherwise you'll pretty much just be running -28 at 75% or whatever until the lumbar spine throws in the towel. This is the year I get back to basics and learn how to do that as well.

  • TheBigHeadTheBigHead Posts: 59 Baller
    could you post some successful 28 off passes?

    Its tough to gauge your habits based of one turn.

    Perhaps what you are showing us is how you generally ski, perhaps its just a one off. Hard to tell without more source material.

  • arigold22arigold22 Posts: 47 Baller
    @TheBigHead I'll try to get some -28 video next time I have a 3rd out at the lake. This video was taken just recently and I thought it highlighted my issues well. I typically get 0.5 or 2 @ -32.
  • arigold22arigold22 Posts: 47 Baller
    @jhughes glad to see I'm not the only one. Good luck! Hopefully we can both build some good habits and put up big scores.
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,056 Mega Baller
    edited May 2019
    @arigold22 I agree that seeing some 28s would help and the better your 28s are the easier it will get through 32 off. I also agree with @andjules your 1-2 body position could improve some but I do realize it is your offside and frankly whose offside position couldn't be better. Improving your space into one ball will allow you to let the ski finish the turn a little more and get in better position when the boat picks you up which should help.

    I did just rewatch the video and improving the intensity into the wakes I think will help a lot. A few years ago I was about where you were but working on -35 and Jack Travers gave me that same advice and I went from running 1-2 with the very occasional 3 to running a full pass at 35 in the next set.
    Mark Shaffer
  • arigold22arigold22 Posts: 47 Baller
    @Chef23 Awesome! That's a huge improvement. I'm trying to focus on the intensity at the gate while keeping a strong position with my hips up. Seemed to help a bit Monday but will require several sets until it gets more consistent. Really hoping to put up some -35 scores this year so I appreciate the help.
  • DaveLemonsDaveLemons Posts: 26 Baller
    Speed is your friend. It’s how and when you carry the speed that it becomes beneficial. As others have stated your timid through the gates so you can get a good one. Carry more speed in your glide, turn in with more speed, get wider on the boat, however you want to think of it the result is the same. The ski will come around easier and allow you to get in a good stack before the boat starts pulling you down course. Carry the speed out and earlier to one ball.
  • jhughesjhughes Posts: 1,085 Mega Baller
    @Than_Bogan I thought the same. "Will require a strong mental game and complete ski brain rewire over a lifetime". "Tips" might get you to -28, but going further requires strong fundamentals and leaving the ego at the dock.

  • So_I_SkiSo_I_Ski Posts: 142 Baller
    Although I agree with most of the comments about improving your alignment as a prerequisite to continued advancement in the course, the "reason" that you can't make this particular pass is not because you aren't early or wide enough. What I see are poor off side turn mechanics that must be addressed to ever make a 32 off. Unlike some, I do not believe that the ski turns itself. Your onside is decent, your offside is not.

    It doesn't help that your hips are trailing and the handle has peeled away as you start the pre-turn going into your offside and you could never run a 35 in that position but you should still be able to run this 32. As so many of the ballers have said over the years, be tall at the ball. You start your pre-turn by leaning over too soon and then make matters worse by dropping your handle. If you freeze frame the video you can spot the handle drop very clearly. From that point on you are dropping your shoulders and your head, in effect attempting to make that turn simply by falling over.

    I would suggest that you can dramatically improve that off side turn by simply standing up (as per Horton's advice by straightening the back leg as you exit the wakes). That in itself will bring your hips closer to the handle. Then focus on reaching up, not down while attempting to level your shoulders and head as much as you are able. Lastly, turn the ski by edging like a snow skier. Think feet, ankles, knees and hips. In effect turn the ski with your lower body, not your upper body. That's my two cents for what it's worth and have fun working on that 32.
  • drewski32drewski32 Posts: 218 Baller
    edited May 2019
    You're not far off from running that pass. Focus on two things: balance and connection.

    Notice that in your wake crossing your hips are still a little behind you thus leading to poor connection and loss of power. I like that you don't panic and try to rip hard turns at your hardest pass, it shows control
  • ReallyGottaSkiReallyGottaSki Posts: 189 Baller
    Fantastic discussion men

    Yeah one could look at it this way, why tweak and squeak little secondary effects at 32 off, only to gain a fragile 32 off pass at the cost of pushing out an even more difficult plateau to 35 off

    If permit me to further analyze the video...

    thinking the 2 ball was lost way back here ...

    Here, the line is going full load (or within a few frames), and the mechanical alignments are off for a strong pull that can maintain a strong angle of attack through the wake, hence why i think Ari let off by boat centerline, At that point choices are limited to let off, fold further, or be folded.

    The hips are just not going to come up during max line tension or in the wakes. Just not. If they did come up then, then its evidence its not a very hard pull. ...there would be let-off... because that angle of attack is unsustainable with the folded body angles , the body crushes further and thus letting off early

    I suggest the point to commit to the hips forward/hips up alignment is way back here, prior to the line loading up hard.

    But after the line loads full, i feel that opportunity is gone and trying to do it in the wake promotes let-off and all the secondary effects it causes...late, lack of width, low handle..

    If the body is aligned way back there, hips thrust forward (call it hips preceding the shoulders) then the skier takes max advantage of the cross-course component of the force vector to the boat earlier, maximizes acceleration and can maintain that angle to the wake exit, (accelerates for longer period) keeping the line loaded on exit of the wake and thus brings that energy to maximize width with all the timing advantages of staying upcourse.
  • arigold22arigold22 Posts: 47 Baller
    @ReallyGottaSki I think you are spot on. I have often felt, especially at -28 and -32, that as I finish my turn at 1 ball I get "squished". I could never seem to figure out why as it seemed to happen no matter how early and wide I was coming into the buoy. I think as you mentioned in your previous comment, these things are happening before 1 ball at my gate. I've been focusing on this the last couple of sets and have felt much less "squished" coming out of the buoy which leads to a better position at 2 and subsequent buoys. That is until I do something stupid and mess it up...
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,056 Mega Baller
    @arigold22 great skiing yesterday. Staying relaxed when you are in a pass at your PB is tough. Be patient and you will get it next time.
    Mark Shaffer
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