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Duck Footed

SkiBeKausSkiBeKaus Posts: 7 New Baller
Dry fitting my binding today to get a new perspective on my stance, I noticed that due to how duck footed I am (my feet point excessively outward when my knees face forward), my hips must not square up to the ski well. My guess is that with my back foot in a rtp, the back foot rotates to compensate and my hips open up to the boat quite a bit on my onside, and don't quite square up to the ski on my offside. I lack a stacked stance on my offside as I bend at my hips too much which I'm guessing is in part due to this.

Trying my uncle's ski with double bindings, I noticed that while my hips are forced to be more square to the ski allowing my upper body to do more of the work in opening my shoulders up to the boat, but I loose a significant amount of mobility, ability to bend the knees, and control over my stance as my knees both bend inwards together, and it's a lot harder to stay on my front foot on offside turns.

For reference, when I squat at the gym, I have to point my toes out so that my knees can bend straight forward. If I try to keep my feet parallel, I can't go nearly as low as my knees start to come together in a very weak and flexibly limited stance.

Current PB (no tournaments) is at 36mph and I feel in control, but know that this is an issue in technique that will limit me later if I don't solve it soon.

Anyone else overcome this? Do you just live with buying rotatable bindings to angle outward (seems like a serious compromise that no hardshell can accommodate as far as I know)? Do you use double boots and ski long enough to force yourself to adjust? Corrective exercises?

Sorry if there is a previous thread on this, as I couldn't find any. Looking forward to your advice!

-Mitch

Comments

  • mmosley899mmosley899 Posts: 657 Water Ski Industry Professional
    @SkiBeKaus you can rotate the boots on the MOB system. I’m not sure if that will solve your issues, but perhaps @BraceMaker can give you better direction on that.
    Mike's Overall Binding www.mobsystemrelease.com
    Sweet Home Alabama Skiing
    Senior Judge, Senior Driver, Tech Controller
    jipster43
  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 1,691 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    Its actually quite common for slalom skiers to rotate the rear binding. RFF would rotate the rear counterclockwise. Anywhere from 1/8” to 3/8” rotation from center measured both front and rear would be a “normal” range, but i have seen some with more.
    This does change the way the ski turns on both sides, but start with what feels comfortable even if you have to get out the hacksaw and trim the plate so it doesn't overhang the edge of the ski.
    I'm Ancient. WTH do I know?
    SkiBeKaus
  • TheBigHeadTheBigHead Posts: 59 Baller
    Its really hard to say without seeing video of your skiing, or even squatting so we can see how bad this is.

    I would guess, without seeing video, that the issues you have skiing are not really a result of being duck footed.

    Like bruce said most boots can be rotated a bit.

    (disclaimer, the below could be wrong for you and its impossible to say without seeing some video)

    For corrective exercises, work with a PT, but most people with outward pointed feet also have collapsed arches and valgus knees. It takes a long time to improve, I've had success doing squats maintaining external rotation through the knee and into the foot (this picks up the arch) and constantly being mindful of keeping the knees pushed outwards during squats (middle of knee tracking over or just outside second toe)

    These are a couple common methods that could help, but you should consult a PT and post some video here of your skiing.

    SkiBeKaus
  • SkiBeKausSkiBeKaus Posts: 7 New Baller
    edited July 2019
    I always thought one goal of skiing was to minimize the differences between our onside and offside; its always those skiers I enjoy watching most, but maybe I put too much value in learning from the 0.1% @Bruce_Butterfield guess I'll stick to rotating my back foot and start looking for where I can capitalize on strengths on either edge of the ski.

    I would gladly post video if I could find a place to ski. Likely won't have another opportunity until late August, and the only video I have is on my Uncles ski with double bindings (I use a rtp) while recovering from an ankle sprain. Safe to say it doesn't accurately depict my skiing unfortunately. @TheBigHead PT sounds expensive, but I will definitely have to look into resources to try to self-diagnose and make what improvements I can.

    As always, thank you for the advice!
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 4,315 Mega Baller
    Many front boot systems do allow for rotation, MOB certainly, any of the boots that are "lasted" where the boot itself is a unit that is screwed down to a plate. For older rubber style bindings and or reflex style bindings you can often oblong the holes in the plate a bit to get that rotation. I think back in the day Jamie B used fogman's with a lot of front boot rotation - not sure if that was him or someone else. And of course the goode powershell system allows. I have a history of femur fracture and internal rotation between hip and knee so for me I like to toe in the front boot slightly.

    As mentioned by @TheBigHead external rotation of the foot truely from tibial torsion (structural twist in the shin bone) is hard to measure and comes from different causes. Try kneeling on a chair leg straight vertical. Angle of foot is now roughly measurable

    SkiBeKaus
  • FatrollFatroll Posts: 233 Solid Baller
    I am knocked kneed (thanks mom) and duck footed (thanks dad). I use the radar vapor boots on the sequence plate and rotate both bindings toe out. It does help me feel more stable on my off side pull and feel less stress on my knees and hips. It works for me.
    2016 Ski Nautique 200 OB 2016 Radar Vapor 69.5"
    Wish they had a bonus buoy count for increased body fat index
    SkiBeKaus
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 4,315 Mega Baller
    edited July 2019
    @SkiBeKaus - this is a way you can pull off a measurement that eliminates the hip (doesn't eliminate mobility of the fib.) but you can atleast get a sense if you really have tibial torsion.


  • TheBigHeadTheBigHead Posts: 59 Baller
    If you cant get into see a physical therapist or someone similar, then check out Dr. Kelly Starrett on insta/youtube.

    He does a lot of functional movement work and rehab, I can say anecdotally that following his recommendations for hips/knees/ankle mobility has helped some people i know.

    As for the skiing and equipment, others have already pointed out that most binding systems allow some rotation of the bindings.

    without seeing your skiing it is hard to say, but my gut tells me that your on water issues (if any) are not related to being duck footed.
    SkiBeKaus
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