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Fin tuning for short line

TELTEL Posts: 373 Crazy Baller
edited September 2019 in Skis Fins Bindings
At what line length do you start tuning your fin for your harder passes. I have heard that what works for short lines are more difficult for your opening passes. What adjustments are done? Just curious not there yet

Comments

  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,612 Mega Baller
    When you can't figure out how to get better any time soon by any other method.

    I'm only sort of kidding. Unless your ski is set up very wrong, it's not likely to be fundamentally holding you back. But when you are firmly on a plateau and don't have the inclination to do what's really necessary to get past it, you can make some gains by fine-tuning your fin instead!
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • HortonHorton Posts: 28,969 Administrator
    edited September 2019
    @TEL with some skis and setups 28 might feel funky to make 38 feel best. I do not think this is true if your hard pass is a longer line such as 28.

    In no case do opening passes need to really feel BAD to make hardest pass best.
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    TEL
  • JackQJackQ Posts: 333 Crazy Baller
    I always set up my ski for the hardest pass, I can make or at least run deep. For me that is 39.
    I have never felt like it made my longest pass harder. Generally, though I most likely should not, I do not ski my 1st two or three passes aggressively as my last two or three. Therefore I want the to perform best when I am skiing hard, not when I am easily running a longer easy pass.
    Weappa
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 4,243 Mega Baller
    I suspect this video is in your mind?

    JordanWish
  • jimskijimski Posts: 508 Crazy Baller
    So where do you start tuning
    Shorter - longer
    Less fin surface area - more surface area
    More or less DFT
    Deeper - shallower
    If your skiing well at -22 but at -35 the ski breaks you or you have trouble turning it where do you start
    Assuming your technique is solid
  • BobFBobF Posts: 162 Baller
    So many variables - it depends on exactly what's happening with you and your ski. Get video of you skiing. Then, post here, and/or get this book.
  • DeanoskiDeanoski Posts: 906 Crazy Baller
    I find that less tip is better for me at -35 -38 at my shortest lengths
  • jimskijimski Posts: 508 Crazy Baller
    @Deanoski
    So then your shortening fin length with no DFT change reducing leading edge ?
    I think my 2020 pro built works great with the # @brooks gave me just wondering where people make the changes as the line gets shorter and there seems to be no real answer so I would assume that most skiers don’t really know
    And I do have both fin whisper books and read them quite regularly
    BobFJAS
  • DragoDrago Posts: 1,588 Mega Baller
    @jimski Its not an, "Oh , now-I'm-a-shortline-skier-so-I-do-this" thing.
    SR SL Judge & Driver (“a driver who is super late on the wheel and is out of sync”)
    Horton
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 2,188
    edited September 2019
    Tested a lot of skis and fins this year and what I concluded on this subject is that long shallow settings help the ski to be faster, and seem easier to ski with up through 32 off.

    Once you get to 35 off and shorter, the ski accelerates faster on it's own, due to the shorter line lengths, and doesn't need that extra speed, and responds better to the shorter/deeper settings. These help to turn better at faster speeds and to scrap better.

    Something I need a lot of unfortunately.

    Special Thanks to Performance Ski and Surf and the Denali Adam's !!!
    GaryWilkinsonSkoot1123BG1
  • jimskijimski Posts: 508 Crazy Baller
    edited September 2019
    Great in-site @Ed_Johnson
    I myself this year noticed some difference in water temp and fin settings
    In the cold short and deep seemed to work better and once the water warmed up the long and shallow felt better
    Cold for me is below 55 deg
  • ski6jonesski6jones Posts: 1,069 Mega Baller
    edited April 18
    Resurrecting this to see if anyone has additional insight on this. I've been getting mid to deep 38 for a few years now, improving slowly. 38 is usually a scramble so its tough to say what more I want from my ski at that line. Would you try to make those decisions at 35 then? Any general rules of thumb for the types of things that crop up at 38 that may not be a problem at 32 and longer?
    Carl Addington, Lakes of Katy, Texas
    jimski
  • buoyboy1buoyboy1 Posts: 103 Baller
    @ Ed Johnson - Where did you end up on your short and deep settings? Are you still on an NRG? Thanks.
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 2,188
    edited April 19
    @buoyboy1 .... No, on a Denali C75. The NRG did work best with a CG Fin and/or the Whisper Fin, Long and Short Line. The WF is a different animal ..Short/Shallow for it.

    Anybody needs a CG Fin, RFF, I have 2 and only need one..$125.00


    Special Thanks to Performance Ski and Surf and the Denali Adam's !!!
  • liquid dliquid d Posts: 1,212 Mega Baller
    @ski6jones I hate to give a "vague" answer, but it's different for different skiers. Marcus Brown described it perfectly in another thread not long ago. At that line length , you have to be able to drift/smear/slide (whatever you want to call it) the tail of the ski comfortably and with quite a bit of proficiency to run it. You can do it with a short/deep setup, or a shallow/long, or even a short/shallow...depending on bindings placement/etc.
    Don't be afraid to change it up, to even something drastic from what you're used to. At your level, you'll know in 3-4 sets if it might work for you.
    Find someone who's killing it on your ski, and ask what numbers they run, and where they've been.
    That's an awesome part of our sport...the worlds best are happy as can be to share....
    ski6jonesBruce_ButterfieldEd_JohnsonThe_MS
  • HortonHorton Posts: 28,969 Administrator
    Perhaps the best way to think about is that as the rope gets shorter fin and binding settings need to be more optimized. For some skiers on some skis the ideal fin setting at shorter ropes will result in a slower turning ski at longer lengths.
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  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 2,095 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I wonder if people are too quick to make adjustments, with shorter line lengths dynamics and timing change, should you give body mechanics and your mind time to adjust.

    If Only I Was Perfect

  • jayskijayski Posts: 900 Mega Baller
    @Horton I used to think that way and set up my skis to act like buses on my easier passes but I began to wonder if my lack of progress was due to that mentality.

    When we are running our easier passes it's easy to ski with proper form and do what we need to, as the line gets shorter we are usually unable to achieve that and wind up in more of a scramble mode.

    If your ski is set up to turn easy, to the point of detrimental on your easier passes perhaps it will aid you on your hardest passes, as the required input is much less than the opposing "bus" set up mentality. It's easy to temper a skis quick turning attitude with body movement on our easier passes, but it's harder to make a ski turn at our limits.

    One of the most revered skis was the Nano one, it would turn no matter what, lots of people achieved their PB's on that ski, and there is a LOT of the new skis that turn near automatically.

    as what @liquid d said "Don't be afraid to change it up, to even something drastic from what you're used to"
  • HortonHorton Posts: 28,969 Administrator
    @jayski I would not set up a ski to turn slow at 32 but if the perfect set up for 38 makes the ski turn slow at 32 who cares?
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    Stella Blue ★ Stokes ★ World WaterSki League

     

    adamhcaldwellZman
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