68" Vapor vs 67" Senate

jeffklop99

I'm currently on a 67" 2015 inch vapor looking to upgrade (22, aspiring 28 off). I love the ski but am looking to slow from 34mph to 32mph due to age and unhappy joints. From what I can see looking at the specs, the 68" Vapor and 67" Senate have nearly identical surface area and width. So....1) Are the guts of the two skis essentially the same such that they would ski very similar? and 2) which of the 2016-2020 Vapor/Senate years would you suggest ? (I don't like to mess with the fin much so easiest to set-up and go would be my preference)

Thanks for your help.

jhughes

2015 Vapor is an outstanding ski and works great at lower speeds. Do you think it’s holding you back at 32mph? The jump to -28 off is mainly about a few key fundamentals vs ski changes.

ALPJr

Couple summers ago, I moved from 34 to 32 mph. Tried a couple little wider 67’s, a few high end 67 and 68’s and ended up back on a 68”, 3rd in a row. The Vapor and Senate that I tried were 2015’s. There was a Radar chart that gave square inches. If I remember right the 68 vapor was close to the 67 senate area.

aupatking

The current Vapor and Senate shapes are the best Radar has ever put out. The 16-17 shapes were a game changer, so people still swear by them but the 2020 is just so good, so fast, so easy to turn and keep speed. It’s the best ski I’ve ever ridden, and I’ve skied on a lot of skis in the past 5 years

aupatking

To answer the other (construction) question, yes, they are, essentially, the same. The Senate uses the Vapor shape, with an additional 0.1 inch on either side, so overall 0.2 inches wider. Whether it’s a Pro Build, Lithium, and so on down the line, the construction is the same.

jeffklop99

Thanks guys. If the construction is the same and the dimensions between the 68 vapor and 67 Senate are the same, seems like they would ski very similar. That opens up more options on buying used as there are far more vapors out there than senates.

@jhughes...no I love the 15. But I am right on the size cutoff so dropping to 32MPH I think a jump to a 68" Vapor (or 67" Senate) would be best, unless you all think otherwise. Also my son decided to explode in growth this year so I am going to bump him from his old 65" A2 to my old 67" 15 Vapor....Good excuse for me to get a new ski!

jeffklop99

@aupatking....your comment might cost me some money!! Thanks for your input.

jhughes

@jeffklop99 thats more of an excuse than I have ever had for a ski upgrade for sure! Makes sense. I skied the Vapor and Senate back to back a lot in 18 (19 model year) and vastly preferred the Vapor. I’m in the minority on that opinion but that’s what I felt.

MJE

Skied the 67 Senate and the 68 Vapor last year and preferred the Vapor.

pregom

@jhughes, @MJE - could you elaborate on why you preferred the Vapor? (btw, I love my 2016 Vapor)

jeffklop99

@jhughes, @MJE...interesting you found a substantial difference in the two. Particularly given the nearly identical dimensions. Maybe a slightly different construction for the senate vs vapor? Or maybe it's in the recommended fin settings/binding positions? Despite the nearly identical dimensions, the settings recommendations are slightly different on the Radar website.

jhughes

Huge difference. I have videos of passes on both skis on the fifteenoff channel on YT. To me the Vapor seemed more flowy and turny, particularly on 2/4 (onside) where I generally like additional help. I went through multiple rounds of settings on the Senate, the Vapor was perfect stock out of the box. Bindings on, skied right into PB territory on the first set. Cool ski. Struggled on it in the fall and then again in the spring, I’m of the opinion that the Radar designs can be water temp sensitive but that could just be crazy talk. Have been on an old beat up ARC-S for a while now that seems to be a good neutral partner at this stage of the learning process.

BraceMaker

@jeffklop99 I think the surface area chart is very useful... but also very unuseful.

The least useful thing to do would be look at a compiled chart of skis by surface area and think to yourself "I need 375 sq inches of ski" but if you've got that buddy who "always skis a 68" and insists that a 67" ski is too short... Well that number is helpful to point out.

aupatking

@jhughes were you on the 2019 shape or the 2020? They are both brand new for 2020.
I’ll agree with you on all points you made if we're talking about the 2019. I have a 2019 67 PB Senate in my garage that I haven’t found the right fin settings on. I just haven’t had the time and the 2020’s came out. Make someone a smoking deal on an almost new 2019 PB Senate.
The 2020, out of the box seems to be a fire breather, Vapor or Senate. I’ve only skied 1 set on the 2020 Senate of my ski partners, with his boot setup, but it is fantastic. My Vapor just keeps getting me deeper into PB territory

jeffklop99

@Bracemaker....totally agree on the SA. I just found it interesting that the width and SA were so similar between the two and was curious if the 68 Vapor and 67 Senate aren't very similar in how they ski, particularly given the widths. Ideally I'd ski both, but unless I demo both new versions, that's not likely to happen.

Ski_Dad

I would be tempted to go Senate Pro until you can run 32. This one seems to be a nice deal - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Radar-Senate-Pro-Build-Waterski-Blank-67-2019/113916293432

Spineofgoo

@jeffklop99 I got the 2019 68"vapor and it was a real game changer,skiing better than ever at 34 mph.

Lobonator

Midway through last season I switched from a 18 66" vapor to a 19 67 Senate Pro, and have found the Senate to turn just as quickly as the vapour. I just started skiing 34mph 15off and found the Senate to be a lot more consistent with both skis at stock settings.

If you can get a good deal on a Senate Pro I'd highly recommend it.

dvskier

There are several 19 Senate Pro Ski’s on ski-it -again. Priced very affordable.

thager

@teammalibu had a nice 67 for sale earlier.

aupatking

There’s a 67 inch 2020 Senate Lithium on SIA right now for $800 that someone needs to jump all over

KRoundy

Just a thought - Is the Senate / Vapor width difference very similar to the variable-width skis that Denali is trying? It seems that the Senate is a really popular ski (I have one), and now in 2020 the difference between a Senate and a Vapor is just width. The Senate used to be a one-model-older ski shape (but wider), but in 2020 we don’t have to “settle” for the previous-generation shape from the Vapor. It is a fun time to be a slalom skier! So much new technology, shapes, bindings, fins... this is the best!