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Joel's Ankle

jercranejercrane Posts: 379 Crazy Baller
I don't understand how Joel broke his ankle so badly at Worlds ... complete mystery. :D

slalom
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Comments

  • GloersenGloersen Posts: 1,099 Mega Baller
    Mental toughness vs crazy; that kid has gotta bunch of both.
    At least the boots are caution colored.
    ballsohardslalomaupatkingdrewski32
  • JordanJordan Posts: 1,258 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    At some point he put up a video on instagram of him buying aluminum angle to cut up into brackets and mounting his boots.

    Pretty much a demonstration of how you can still get hurt with both feet in. Now, we have no way of knowing if a releasable setup would have prevented or lessened his injury.
    Wish
  • ScottScottScottScott Posts: 1,102 Mega Baller
    Thats the Home Depot binding system.
    IGski
  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 3,301 Mega Baller
    I broke my ankle two years ago. Water conditions were near white cap , blew tail out around two ball and jammed the ski into a wave. Never came out of either bindings.
    Last year clipped the tip of the ski going around 3 ball blew tail out squirted right out of the bindings. Riped my shoulder though.
    Waterskiing is a extreme sport.
    Sometimes extreme thinking is necessary to feel safer.
    Patrice used to have Frankenstein bindings.
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.


  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 4,655 Mega Baller
    I thought he broke his boot in that same crash.
  • JackQJackQ Posts: 412 Open or Level 9 Skier
    You all are correct there is not 100% safe solution. It is about minimize the risk, I would never consider having hard shell binders permanently affixed to ski, ala original fogmans, and Joel's system. The consequence of the occasional stuffing the tip into the wake a short line would not end well.

    I am in the extreme minority that still use and prefer rubber binders(T factors), and feel that they are safer than releasable hard shells. I tried hard shells for a year and never felt as safe.
    The initial give or rubbers specifically when the ski stops at the buoy and you collapse into ski where many Achilles tears occur, reduce the risk, a vast majority of the Achilles tears I have seen in the last 10 years have been on hard shell binders.

    I have been lucky, and but in almost 40 years of practicing and tournaments I have never had a binder related injury, shoulder surgery (sticking arm in water crashing) , back surgery (too may hits?), and my PM is [email protected]
    BobFThan_BoganMDB1056
  • S1PittsS1Pitts Posts: 275 Solid Baller
    I broke my front ankle back in 2003. No crash....just buried the tip hard on my offside turn.
    Like Jody said it is an extreme sport, especially when that line is starting to get shorter.
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,306 Mega Baller
    I skied in double Animals for a long time and had many hellacious falls including a fin without a safety bar falling out of the fin box, a failed front screw on my wing which caused the wing to torque to a straight downward position and stop the ski in its track behind the boat, and numerous handle and rope breaks, etc., and I almost always flew out of both bindings, like superman a few times, without any serious injury.

    I went to double hard shells on velcro and had a late release that tore the crap out of the inside of my back ankle, didn't break anything, but the Doctor said he only sees that type of interior damage from a car accident. I went out in mid-July and didn't ski the rest of the year.

    Now that I am only a part-time skier at best, I have skied in Radar Stradas and Vapor boots as a matter of comfort. I am not sure the edge control feels as solid as the Animals or Hard Shells, but I have come out of them for every fall that was remotely violent.

    So my opinion based on what I have seen is to get away from the ski by releasing from the bindings, but I know others are in the stay in the binding at all cost camp.

    It is basically whatever you feel comfortable with and what you have personally experienced.
  • AndreAndre Posts: 1,597 Mega Baller
    That's also a lot of scew holes in the ski...
  • GarnGarn Posts: 570 Crazy Baller
    I think the boot is screwed to a plate isn't it?
    jimskislalom
  • liquid dliquid d Posts: 1,333 Mega Baller
    not more holes....all the braces are mounted to a plate, not directly in the ski.
    slalom
  • WishWish Posts: 8,269 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited January 2020
    I think Joels is on a diff playing field. Using those boots to me puts the load of a foward crush way up the leg through higher stiffer cuff and into larger muscles and bone vs a low softer cuff that exposes small ankle bones, tendons and muscle which most if not all current hardshells and hybrid bindings do. Which may be why his ankle did not break.

    Similar in concept and years ago I started using the boots pictured for that very reason. The boots consisted of cuffs that are brutally stiff, very high up the leg but were free to flex forward. Straps stop forward crush of ankle as well as assist the velco plate to lift and separate from the ski once ankle is past a set point. Oddly enough, I think it only released once. Velco is not an exact science unfortunately. Also used these boots on non releasable plates with similar straps

    Just so its not part of the discussion..the plate material was used because of it's extreme low cost for experimentation and it's ease to work with using basic power tools.



    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
    A_B
  • jercranejercrane Posts: 379 Crazy Baller
    Wow I am now 100% convinced @Horton has a horrible job. This crew can debate anything. :D
    I just thought his setup was funny and looked super sketchy to me. Sarcasm does not translate to text.

    you guys are a trip
    WishjimskiHorton
  • WishWish Posts: 8,269 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited January 2020
    @jercrane This time of year, anything is a discussion. 😂 And oddly enough his ankle did not break. His foot did which makes it all the more interesting
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
    slalom
  • PatMPatM Posts: 803 Crazy Baller
    @JackQ You mentioned the vast majority of achilles tears that you witnessed have been on hardshells, which I don't doubt. For me it has been just the opposite. The most achilles tears I have witnessed in the past few years have been in rubber bindings, including the T-Factor. So as you mentioned nothing is 100% safe.
    BG1Than_BoganJordan
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,066 Mega Baller
    Skiing is extreme and what Joel and frankly anyone that runs 39 and beyond does takes it to another step. I would never put myself in that set of bindings but I was a deep 35 skier on a good day. Personally I want releasable bindings but I can also see the thought process of having both feet in. While the falls are much slower and the lever shorter snowboards don't release. I never hurt myself on a snowboard. Interesting statistic the incident of snowboard injuries vs snow ski injuries per 1000 ski days used to be almost identical but different type of injuries. Not sure if that is still accurate.
    Mark Shaffer
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,820 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    At the point you build something like that - why not just through bolt them to a plate and bolt the plate down. Seems like a lot of work for something that looks hokey as heck.
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 4,655 Mega Baller
    @oldjeep

    They're on plates. I'm not sure if he has any internal hardware but in theory the perimeter method is probably better despite being hokey.

    If you were engineering a boot to specifically bolt down to a plate for waterskiing it would have a flange around the perimeter to screw up into from below the plate.


    Wish
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 4,655 Mega Baller
    I think they're all just pop riveted on from the bottom/inside out.
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,820 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Ah, couldn't see plate on phone. I wonder how long until someone mounts some bomber bindings and downhill ski boots on a waterski. I suppose the issue is the lack of space between the boots.
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • BrennanKMNBrennanKMN Posts: 543 Crazy Baller
    If I am not mistaken, I am pretty sure I read somewhere where Joel said those were snow ski boots.
    Lovellslalom
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,820 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Could be, don't recognize them. Does look like they used to have a rear cuff spoiler on them
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • jimskijimski Posts: 589 Crazy Baller
    Maybe he needs a reflex sponsor
    Horton
  • TomHTomH Posts: 48 Baller
    Those are just some hacked up Cabrio-style (tongue vs overlap closure) downhill boots, probably old Dalbellos. The plus for those in a waterski setting would be that they have a much more tunable forward flex as opposed to traditional overlap boots. The tongue you install on those boots (can get them in different stiffnesses) can drastically alter the forward flex, while not having much impact to the lateral stiffness of the rest of the boot.
    WishAndreMISkiernormanwenzel
  • skialexskialex Posts: 1,216 Mega Baller
    He must have a better and more direct ski feeling under the feet as these boots are bottomless and the liners sit directly on the plates.
    Andreslalom
  • andjulesandjules Posts: 843 Mega Baller
    What's interesting to me is that when Joel first came on the scene several years back, he was wearing a helmet for slalom. On the surface, that may seem like a slow attitude swing from overcautious to undercautious, but I suspect there's a lot more nuance to it in terms of self-knowledge and cost/benefit.
    slalomWishrockdog
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