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How old is too old for a ski?

DirtDirt Posts: 1,677 Open or Level 9 Skier
I ask this question because I have three Mapple T2 skis. The one I like the most has four full ski seasons on it.
I have not liked anything I have tried more than my current ski. I am interested in the New Denali but probably won’t ski enough this year to justify it.
I can think of a few great skiers that rode their old skis for years. Simon Hill on the Shadow. Scott Larson on the X5.
I learned everything I know not to do from Horton
«13

Comments

  • thagerthager Posts: 5,182 Mega Baller
    @Dirt Seriously? You haven't stolen a ski from @Horton in 4 years? Time to man up!
    Stir vigorously then leave!
    Dirtjayskiballsohard
  • The_MSThe_MS Posts: 6,131 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    I would pull out the A2
    Shut up and ski
    Dirtmatthewbrown
  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 2,202 ★★★★Quad Panda Award Recipient ★★★★
    My opinions have changed, I used to update my ski regularly, but since I have stuck with the one ski, I have improved, if the ski still feels good and you have time in the course, it's good enough, it's also got to come down to how many times you ski, line length, boat speed and maybe even the way you ski, as to how long the ski is good for, I know good skiers that are on fairly old skis that perform very well, for me it's finding the ski that feels right for you and the way you ski.
    Recently I was talking to somebody who happened to be skiing where Rossi was, he was given the opportunity to ride the very same ski that Rossi was on and had setup, Rossi was somewhat dismayed, when he was unable to turn the ski and get it to work for him.
    So what is right for one is not necessary right for another, which in someways is fantastic as it means we are all individuals with our own style and techniques.

    Addicted To Carbon Fibre

    Dirt
  • thagerthager Posts: 5,182 Mega Baller
    Jeff Rogers was skiing on something out of the 80's recently. One of our local deep short liners was still on a Fisher a few years ago. If it ain't broken don't fix it!
    Stir vigorously then leave!
    adkh2oskierDirtBulldogballsohardThe_Heckler
  • JordanJordan Posts: 1,250 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Years ago I had Lapoint O'Brien that seemingly died over night. It went from skiing great to dumping me constantly. Yes, I checked fin etc. Most of the time the skis just change gradually and it's really not noticeable until you get on a new ski.
    Dirtballsohard
  • DirtDirt Posts: 1,677 Open or Level 9 Skier
    I don’t feel like anything is wrong with my ski I have just been wondering if I would ski better or more consistently on a new one.
    I learned everything I know not to do from Horton
  • thagerthager Posts: 5,182 Mega Baller
    Take a trip to BOS headquarters and try some skis.
    Stir vigorously then leave!
    The_MSballsohard
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 3,121 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    There is a market for reasonably fresh T2’s.

    If you like the T2 you may really like the new Lapoint LP1.
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
    BG1DirtballsohardDeanoski
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,403 Administrator
    edited February 2020
    @Dirt I think 15+ years ago you could ride a ski longer. By current standards they were basically dead to start with so they could only get so much worse.

    An all carbon & PVC core ski is likely not going to ski like new after 200 + rides. The fact that you ski like a school girl means you can get a more out of it but there is a practical limit.

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    Dirtballsohard
  • RednucleusRednucleus Posts: 591 Crazy Baller
    Mechanically, what changes in today's skis to make them ski differently?
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,403 Administrator
    @Rednucleus epoxy microfractures, bond degradation between carbon skins and the core, degradation of the core...

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    chris55
  • CPC_1CPC_1 Posts: 24 Baller
    Wait— skis have shelf lives? I love this forum...helping me get a new boat and a new ski!!! Let’s go!
    ballsohardsixball
  • wawaskrwawaskr Posts: 334 Crazy Baller
    edited February 2020
    (popcorn eating emoji)....waiting for some real facts.....
    Matt
  • thagerthager Posts: 5,182 Mega Baller
    @Horton "By current standards they were basically dead to start with..." Wow! That should get you some advertising!!!!1 :p
    Stir vigorously then leave!
    jayski
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,977 Infinite Pandas
    The only mechanical tests of aging skis that I've seen and done have indicated that skis test out as stiffer as they age. Whether that is the resin just aging stiffer or work hardening is unclear. Regardless, it is a small measured difference and not a real breakdown of the skis.

    Old polyurethane cores did break down with stress cycles. This made them softer and more prone to breakage. Clark foam was the major supplier and went out of business (abruptly) about 20 years ago. Most of the modern cores are not polyurethane and hold up quite well with respect to both loads and age.

    Skis can get damaged and have properties change. Usually the damage is obvious or clear. Sometimes the durability will be OK but properties change (tough to recreate if you like it after the damage).

    Heat can be a problem. Like direct sunlight on a black ski that will get to 175f (we measured that!) and definitely soften resins allowing the ski to change from how it was molded. Which will change the feel of a ski. Of course, that kind of heat might delaminate the ski and obviously ruin the ski. Keep your skis out of the sun!

    Skis do get stale. You get too used to them and and your style is stifled. A new ski will expose you to different traits that challenge your skills - and improve your skiing. Do keep that old ski - it might respond well to your new skills!

    Eric

    On second thought, those old skis are shot. Send them to me for proper disposal.
    ballsohard
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,403 Administrator
    let me clarify because I think I'm reading some confusion in the thread... a ski that has been sitting in your garage for years might change a tiny bit but not much. A ski that has been ridden hard for hundreds of rides is likely not the same as it was the day you got it.

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  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,977 Infinite Pandas
    @Horton The skis I tested were ones I thought were "dead" and well used. Hence the reference to work hardening. Riding a "dead" ski a couple years later gave good performance. It was me, not the ski.

    Of course, I have broken or damaged many skis and their performance was degraded. Not all damage is visible. Honeycomb skis got waterlogged and corroded. Polyurethane cores powdered. Bubbles formed on the skis. Delamination occurred. (Sometimes this happened on my skis and sometimes on factory skis.) Skis and materials have improved with time and are now quite robust.

    New skis are important for improving your skills more than accounting for age.

    Eric
    Dirt
  • BCMBCM Posts: 270 Baller
    A few years ago I was skiing on an old 'dead' ski, transitioned to something else, felt great. Last fall I was struggling a bit and pulled out the old dead horse. Last fall and this winter I have skied the best I have in years. Maybe that ski is broken down, maybe it isn't, I have no data to support either claim. But, I can compare this winters practice sets to last winter and this winter is going better (on the 12 year old ski). In this case, I believe the dead ski was in my head.

    I would love to see actual data on ski degradation. Do they degrade linearly (e.g. 1% loss of stiffness per set from set 1 to set 100) or is it some kind of curve with an initial 'off the lot' decrease then flat for a few hundred sets then catastrophic failure? Do different manufacturing techniques and materials degrade differently?
  • brettmainerbrettmainer Posts: 341 Crazy Baller
    I didn’t know @Dirt still skied. I thought he quit a few years ago after posting a worse score than Horton at the Wet Set Regionals.
    Dirt
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,403 Administrator
    @brettmainer you mean the year that he missed his opener?

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    Dirt
  • brettmainerbrettmainer Posts: 341 Crazy Baller
    Horton, don’t make it sound so bad. He almost came close to running it. The deep water start and the body position going around the island all looked pretty good.
    wilecoyoteReggieOBroussard
  • EricKelleyEricKelley Posts: 299 Crazy Baller
    Several years ago for kicks I flex tested a decade plus old Goode 9800 with the same flex tester at the exact points and same flex tester. It flexed essentially the same as it did when new. I think the all carbons likely stay the same......until they break.
    Dirt
  • DirtDirt Posts: 1,677 Open or Level 9 Skier
    I skied on the T2 the last four days. It feels really good. I spent a couple years on a Goode and a HO A2 I borrowed from Horton. I would ride the HO during the week and switch to the Goode on Friday and tournaments because it was more forgiving.
    I learned everything I know not to do from Horton
    RichardDoane
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,403 Administrator
    @EricKelley occasionally you will find a ski that lasts hundreds of rides. Most skis will flex about the same on a static flex tester but will be diminished in terms of dynamic flex after 150+/- rides. No composite piece of sporting good equipment lasts forever.

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    RichardDoane
  • chrislandychrislandy Posts: 201 Solid Baller
    It's 100% down to the inherent ski design i.e. layup, materials and cure cycle.

    All materials have a design life until fatigue failure, carbon composites should have a predictable lifecycle.

    A layup with large strain differences (large delta of inter lamina strain) will fail quite quickly and delam with quite small cyclic deflections, or where the strain is too great in the core. A layup with a stepped inter lamina strain will last longer and perform more predictably with a longer design fatigue life.

    Cheap resin will micro/macro fracture earlier and be less predictable and degrade quicker if not properly UV protected.

    As already mentioned, overheating by leaving the ski in the sun is a sure fire way of screwing the ski. If the Tg (Glass transition temp) of the resin is 60degC (140F) and it hits 80degC (175F) then the ski will be pretty much bin fodder. If the cure cycle and final Tg is 120degC (250F) then while it will reduce the lifespan a bit, it won't effect the mechancial properties much, if at all.
    HortonBruce_ButterfieldDaveD
  • EricKelleyEricKelley Posts: 299 Crazy Baller
    @horton completely agree that no ski lasts forever but I do think the pure carbon fiber skis(which are not composites) will outperform the resin infused carbon weaves. They are superior except fragility. Good point about dynamic reflex.
    dchristman
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,403 Administrator
    @EricKelley carbon fiber / epoxy is not a composite?

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