Level handle

mtnskiskatemtnskiskate Posts: 13
edited October 2010 in Technique & Theory
Have a question for you guys. Can't seem to get the new school thing down (hoping to consistently run 35 which will get me past the 2 at 38). Started working on the earlier passes after reading on here. I have discovered if I keep the handle LEVEL all the way through the wakes, I am actually opening to the boat and counter rotating. As simple as this is, no one has ever told me to do this. Does anyone think about this while in the course or is it just natural for most people. Thanks.

Comments

  • HortonHorton Posts: 27,150 Administrator
    edited October 2010
    If it works....
    When you say "open" are you talking about your hips or shoulders? One of the classic misconceptions about new school is that you want your pelvis open to the boat. You do want more power (or equal) power on your trailing shoulder. So shoulder rotation is a good thing. If your pelvis is rotated open you are just a pretzel. FYI new school is dead.

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  • ralral Posts: 1,706 Mega Baller
    I have been told to keep the handle level to avoid leading with my shoulders in my offside. And not leading with the shoulders translate to shoulders level and open to the boat. And, as it is difficult to have shoulders level and open to the boat without counter rotating, there you go...
    Rodrigo Andai
  • bmiller3536bmiller3536 Posts: 298 Baller
    <p>
    Agree with Hortin, Open hips behind the boat will cause you to generate alot of down course speed on your edge change. Keep your hips facing the direction the ski is traveling, this will help you carry speed and direction outbound.
    </p>
    Brad Miller
  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,277 Mega Baller
    <p>
    I disagree with "open hips causing you to generate a lot of down course speed on your edge change". Open hips (hips facing downcourse) alone does not dictate how you will carry out off the wakes. Opening your hips, or think of "rotating" your hips, (clockwise going left, counterclockwise going right) is an effective way to move weight forward directly over your feet causing the ski to be in a more tip-down attitude and hold better angle through the wakes and outbound. Also, not sure how being open with hips makes you a pretzel. Try being open with your shoulders and torso on your offside pull, but closed with your hips. Now that's a pretzel.
    </p>
    <p>
    But to address mtnskiskate's question (are you a x-country skier or something?), keeping a level handle is probably a valid thought for you to cause you to focus on your position behind the boat and through the edge change. Everyone has to have their "keys" and if that one is working for you, then stay with it. I have a key thought that is working really well for me that is similar and that is "level". I try to keep my shoulders level (and my head vertical) throughout a pass - from the initial pullout, to the turn in, through the edge change and especially as I ski back to the handle. That one thought causes so many good and correct things to happen for me that it is a #1 must do item.
    </p>
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
  • bmiller3536bmiller3536 Posts: 298 Baller
    <p>
    Jimbrake, the ski is going to travel in the direction your hips are facing once you unload that is a fact. Try going to your off side with your hips facing the boat. Let me know how that works out for you.
    </p>
    Brad Miller
  • Didn't mean to get any crap started. Read your posts and all seem helpful to me. I tend to revert to the old clean and jerk method from the 70s, but I'm working on on it. Someday.........
  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,277 Mega Baller
    <p>
    bmiller3536
    </p>
    <p>
    Bro - sounds like you are pissed. 
    </p>
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
  • MarcoMarco Posts: 1,407 Crazy Baller
    edited October 2010
    <p>
    If you look at the Tech Articles tab on the front page, you will find an article "Water Ski Lessons- Two On-Sides by Terry Winter".
    </p>
    <p>
    He says:
    </p>
    <p>
    <em>"On our on-side turns our hips are naturally opened up, making it easier to keep the shoulders level, and get the lower body weight moving over the inside of the arc. The off-side is more difficult because our hips are closed up."</em>
    </p>
    <p>
    <em>"By opening up the hips as much as possible into and through our off-side turns we can make the ski turn equally well on both sides of the course."</em>
    </p>
    <p>
    I found Terry's article was helpful to my skiing this summer, and was instumental in getting me past a brick wall (2 ball) on my hardest length.
    </p>
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,052 Mega Baller
    Try this on land just hanging onto the handle and then imagine 700lbs of resistance.

    Open hips to the boat might be the way to go, but I would-be in traction most of the time. I skied with Brandon Bucher years ago and he was teaching the open and compressed style and I did manage to run a nice 35 off, but all the twisting hurt my back for days. My knees are so bad, ain't no way I can compress like some of those wc guys.

    My group has always said to point with your pee pee in the direction you want to go and stand tall behind the boat. Seemed to work for us.

    kristi overton skied open to the boat and didn't she quit due to back problems? And she was a brute skier.
  • skidawgskidawg Posts: 3,260 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    I wish I could open my hips up into my onside!
    Mr. Mom is Horton's favorite movie!
  • HortonHorton Posts: 27,150 Administrator
    RFF - out of 2-4 hips open, yea great. Out of 1-3 how do you twist open & stay stacked?

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  • skidawgskidawg Posts: 3,260 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    Easier to stay stacked outa off side bc ur already over ur front foot
    Mr. Mom is Horton's favorite movie!
  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,026
    edited October 2010
    Then why do the majority of the skiers break at the waist on their offside turn if they are naturally stacked from that side?
    Bob Grizzi
  • StevenSteven Posts: 307 Baller
    <p>
    probably cuz of poor core strength, having your hips squared to the boat after getting on the handle too soon. if i push my left hip bone toward 2 ball and my right hip bone toward 3 i never have a problem with breaking at the waste. on your offside you'll never be as open as your on but as stated before it'll help to get more ski in the water and help to keep you in a more stacked position.
    </p>
  • bmiller3536bmiller3536 Posts: 298 Baller
    <p>
    jimbrake, not pissed at all. just getting my point across
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    <p>
    I think what Terry refers to as "opening your hips into your onside turn" is actually opening your hips away from the boat. i.e. counter rotation. That keeps the ski going outbound.
    </p>
    Brad Miller
  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,277 Mega Baller
    <p>
    bmiller 3536. whew. I feel much better then.
    </p>
    <p>
    What you quoted Terry saying is what I was getting at. "Open" to me means facing off the side of your ski to the extent possible - easily achievable on your onside pull, not so much on your offside because of stance, but you can still be quite open (and stacked). There is a transition of hip position during the edge change. I think you thought I meant to stay open to the boat all the way through the edge change.
    </p>
    "...all of the basic fun banter"

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