Why does a Wakeboard count as a Trick ski in AWSA tournaments?

jgills88

Hi all,

I'm usually a collegiate skier, but due to COVID the season got moved from the fall. Because of that, I started going to "normal" tournaments that are just AWSA sanctioned. At one of them, the tournament director realized that most wakeboards fall into the AWSA definition of a trick ski. I didn't sign up to trick, but if I had, I would have been able to put up a massive PB with all tricks being worth full points instead of the NCWSA half points.

The rule:
"[Equipment and Definitions] 8.03 Skis
A. Maximum ski width shall not exceed 35% of the length.
...
D. Trick skis:
1. Skis used in the Tricks event shall not have fins.
2. Trick skis with molded rails/grooves less than 1/2" are allowed.
3. A foot pad cemented to the ski as a place for the rear foot is also
permitted.
E. With all bindings, fins, etc., installed, the ski must float.
F. Attaching two separate skis together in any manner is prohibited."

Nowhere does it specify binding placement like in the NCWSA rulebook, which specifies that the front binding must be within 10* parallel with the front of the ski to be counted as a trick ski.

Would this be something to be concerned about and looked at for a change moving forward?

MattP

@jgills88 No, I do not see that change happening. Almost no one in AWSA uses a wakeboard.

I think it is difficult to find a wakeboard that falls into the 35% rule these days. The rule used to be 30%? and it was very difficult to find a modern wakeboard that fit that rule so it was increased.

@JeffSurdej can correct me if I am wrong but if memory serves me correct the reason that NCWSA has the trick ski rule further defined is to encourage traditional 3 event skiing and not to penalize those skiers who choose to ski on a trick ski instead of a wakeboard. I think we can all agree that tricking is harder to do than wakeboarding... So teams in theory could make it to Conference, Regionals or Nationals without a single skier on a trick ski with a one pass run. In AWSA we would be hard pressed to find someone with 2 full 20 second passes on a wakeboard beat a trick skier with 2 full passes hand/toe. Tricks can be competed on a trick ski much faster than a wakeboard as well and toe tricks are worth a lot of points.

jgills88

@MattP thanks for the insight!

I 100% agree that it is so much easier to do a run on a wakeboard rather than trick ski, which was my main concern about the rule as it stands. It was be super hard to find someone to beat a hand/toe trick skier with two wakeboard passes, but it's not unreasonable for them to beat a sub ~2,000 point trick run which just isn't right imo.

Concerning the boards, the ones that we measured at the tournament ended up being a fairly consistent 33%

Jody_Seal

54" trick ski available. pretty close to wake board size.

Hey if you bring a wake board to trick in competition more power to ya.
20 seconds comes fast!

lpskier

I’ve seen wakeboards at AWSA tournaments. Try to do a wake line back on that sucker.

A friend has the large Goode ski. He and I trick about the same, so I asked what he thought of it. He said he liked it because he could go about 5 mph slower and so the falls were a lot easier, but he couldn’t do any more tricks than he could on his normal ski.

JeffSurdej

@MattP your explanation is exactly right, @jgills88 My guess is that if a lot of wakeboarders starting entering trick events we would see the same rule that NCWSA has, but for right now its fine for the half dozen that use wakeboards in AWSA so I say take advantage of it.

RichardDoane

My Hyperlite Roam board spins like a top. I’ll never be very good at Trick, but it beats sitting on the dock.

bsmith

@jgills88 You mention that for a beginner using a wakeboard makes a lot of basic tricks easier to do than using a standard sized trick ski. I have been wondering about whether to try that myself for awhile. But in this thread https://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/24201/big-guy-trick-ski @Bruce_Butterfield explains how a lot of wakeboards have a continuous rocker which makes them prone to catching an edge when in a sideways position.

Since you and many of your friends in college used wakeboards for tricks, did you guys ever have a favorite brand or model of wakeboard for use as a trick ski?

jgills88

@bsmith I've used an older (2010ish) Hyperlite boat board in tournaments. But honestly people will just use whatever board they had anyway and take their fins off. If you wanna get some trick scores on one, I'd suggest looking at Facebook Marketplace and seeing whats available. I looked at the thread that you linked, and I should point out that I have zero experience with positioning wakeboard bindings to be like a trick ski, so I dont have any sort of knowledge for how it'd be different compared to a normal setup if thats the direction you were going.

From what i've seen collegiate tournaments, wakeboards are amazing for busting through the 200pts logjam (S, RS, B, F) that a bunch of new trick skiers get stuck at. I'm a terrible trick skier, maybe getting a sideslide sometimes. In contrast, I'm at a place where can put up a 410pt collegiate run on a wakeboard for my team while focusing on other events. My concern for AWSA was that run instantly becoming a 820pts, with the opportunity to get past 1,000pts on a two pass, which just isnt right considering the effort and skill it takes to do that on a trick ski compared to a board

unksskis

@bsmith that doesn't make them prone to catching an edge. Usually beginners do better on continuous rocker wakeboards compared to 3 stage, which gives spots that actually will catch an edge when unbalanced.

I would argue about the tricks being "easier" on a wakeboard once executing them within time is considered.

bsmith

One of the other comments in the thread on trick skis for big guys is that instead of the 54" length of the large size Goode trick ski, that something closer to 50" might be better. To that point, I found this brand new World Industties 48" kids wakeboard here https://www.amazon.com/World-Industries-Battle-Wakeboard-124cm/dp/B00GNA0SCG for just $59. On another sales site for this board I saw that it is a continuous rocker board for wake boarders up to 130 pounds. Would this board be ok as a trick ski for a 195 pound skier?

Hallpass

@bsmith. I'm no expert, but FWIW. A friend of mine was a very good three event skier, and a pro jumper for a while. He put his kids on Hyperlite Motive wakeboards as a lead in to trick skis. The Motives start at a size 118 kids version and went up to at least a 140. I see them used on facebook market, craigslist, etc. In the case of my my friend, he mounted the boards with Liquid Force Bindings that had a swivel base. Just loosen a couple of screws and easy to swivel the bindings forward. He removed the fins from the wakeboard. Every so often he would swivel the bindings a couple of notches forward, getting them closer to trick ski position. When the bindings were swiveled as close to trick ski configuration as possible, and the kids were comfortable, he moved them to a trick ski. They did not lose a single trick when making that transition. I'm a lousy wakeboarder, and even worse on a trick ski, but my experience is that on a wakeboard I can usually do S, B, F, WB, WF, and the reverse of each. That's worth about 640 pts. Sometimes I can do an O and reverse, that would be another 180 pts. On a trick ski, I'm still struggling with starts and a side slide which is the point of the original poster - Trick skiing is hard.

bsmith

@unksskis and @Hallpass I actually already own a 43.5" graviton trick ski and have learned all the basic surface turns and am now trying to do wake turns. But as you guys say, it's hard and I took a lot of falls to learn S's, F's, B's, and O's. I am thinking that I could learn more tricks faster on a bigger ski or wakeboard and then pretty easily carry those skills back to a real trick ski if and when speed becomes important as @unksskis mentions.

And while all kinds of wakeboards can be picked up for a dime a dozen, I did want to avoid the problem @Bruce_Butterfield encountered where he tried an arbitrary wake board as a trick ski and discovered that it caught edges easily when sideways. According to you guys maybe that is not really a problem for most boards so I will try to find a relatively flat wakeboard and make my own experiment on whether I can progress faster or not with it.

Hallpass

@bsmith. I'm no expert on wakeboards either. But, that board you are looking at is a 124. Not meant for more than 120 lbs in the wakeboarding world. If I were you, I wouldn't use a wakeboard under 138 at your weight of 195. BTW, that's about the same length as the 54" Goode trick ski. FWIW