USA Waterski penalty for 1 or 2 tournaments

cruznski

The sport has become increasingly elevated to the small minority who go to lots of tournaments.
This impacts ALL who would like to be in the game but can't go to numerous tournaments (most of which now are on private lakes as USAWS support for skiers on public lakes in almost non existent- BTW that is how I am am still skiing).
This impacts youth and new skiers a great deal, who would like (if they can afford it) to go to tournament and get on the rankings list and see how they are doing.
So this originated with old AWSA. There are PENALTIES if you ski less than 3 "sanctioned" tournaments. This has been in place forever.

In 2020 my club could run 1 tournament. There are a LOT of locations (away from USAWS headquarters) where normal people will ski their locale's tournament and that's it. They do not have a motor home to travel to 2 or 3 tourneys in say AZ or the south.

So HOW does it make sense that in 2020 with COVID if you ski ONE tournament in the past 12 months you get deducted 10% of your score? How did that ever make sense? Or IF you can make it to 2 , they still deduct 5%which with a spouse and a child would be thousands in expense, now you are legit to the rankings list? In any year- but this year? Who runs this stuff at USAWS?

It is so high end biased it makes no sense at all. It's like a golf club that guarantees their members get high rankings.
So yes I have a beef- Our club's tourney was a great event- I skied a season PB and my score was reduced the equivalent of a pass and a half. Because that's the only score I have for 12 months. And there were like 4 tournaments in my area I could have even skied- after taking weeks off and leaving a fire zone where we were evacuated with three offspring dealing with COVID rules. .. that is not life possible .


I do not even agree with a buoy reduction for tournaments not skied. You ski a sanction that's your score.

Have been following the other thread on how rankings work, love the drive there.

USAWS is contributing to the decline of the sport in my view with this antiquated and not current world situation.

I am prepared for gnar here.

lpskier

Not exactly like you could ski Lake Placid, Saranac Lake and Long Lake, and get three tournaments within 30 miles of home. Ah, the good old days. I can smell the wood skis from here.

lpskier

And let’s not forget Newcomb.

cruznski

John @lpskier yah but that was in driving distance in summer and tournament fees were $30. And the results were good . Timing boats all of it.
My children (3) were all put off by the onerous and time consuming rules of practice sites and tournaments that did not engage them.

cruznski

@lpskier Newcomb was great... and there was a hot tub which in the Adirondacks was more than welcome

RichardDoane

You’re right about this being a tough season for most tournaments. The ranking list doesn't need a penalty, but maybe an asterisk designating less than 3 scores.

lpskier

On the other hand, can’t you submit non-tournament scores for video review and inclusion on the ranking list? Seems like @JeffSurdej posted here about that option earlier this summer.

JeffSurdej

@lpskier you can but it counts as class F so it would be limited to level 5

lpskier

@JeffSurdej If you look at my scores, I’m working my way in that direction!

liquid d

@cruznski ...sounds like your priorities are all out of whack..ski more tournaments!

JackQ

I think this is a case study of why there is a penalty for one score. You have run your PB at one site that may or may not be an outlier, and you should not be ranked higher that someone that with a multiple score average. There were multiple tournaments held in NothernCA if this was a priority for you.

Broussard

@cruznski The 10% penalty applies to a skier with only one score from a Class C tournament. We will stick with slalom since I assume that is what you are referring to.

In Class C tournaments there is no end course video, the course does not have to be surveyed, and the judges may or may not be elevated and put in a position where they can legitimately see the gates and course.

So because you put up a score at your home site once you think you should be ranked equally to someone that has performed that score on 3 separate occasions or twice in a Class L tournament (with more experienced officials, a surveyed course, end course video, and video gates)?

Your score still counts as a PB in fact your score is not reduced at all. Your score is your score. Your ranking value is reduced which effects seeding and qualification for regionals/nationals.

I would love to hear an argument for why you should be ranked equally to someone that has put up that score on three separate occasions. Now we can discuss whether the percentages make sense (although more buoys are deducted from your ranking value the higher your score becomes with a percentage system).

ALPJr

What if you get three scores at the same lake, where they have three separate tournaments, over a three day weekend? Does that get counted as three separate scores?

PatM

@ALPJr Yes it does and it happens all the time.

kc

@Broussard Well said!

NikolG

California had tons of record and Class C tournaments, an almost normal season despite Covid. A number of them were rescheduled but certainly plenty of options to choose from.

@ALPJr for AWSA the scores at same site count, for IWWF your highest score from each site counts.

ScottScott

@ALPJr If the multiple days in one weekend are listed as separate tournaments, then each score counts. We see many multiple day tournaments, 4 rounds over 2 days (2 rounds per day.) Those just count as one.