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Sport Nautique 200 - Waves reduction for slalom practice

Philippe_DPhilippe_D Posts: 8 New Baller
Dear Ballofspray members,
I’m an owner of one Sport Nautique 200 boat (2015) from 2 years. (see attached photos)
I like very much this boat for his versatility, performance, comfort with the family and high quality of construction. This boat is equipped, from original, with two fat sac ballasts.
However I practice water skiing with my two children with 80% of slalom, 10% Figures, 10% of wake board and sometime wake surf.
My problem is that this boat allows to pratice the slalom skiing but with a low speed 46 / 49 km/h, the waves of the furrow are little bit too important. For this reason I have to use the water skiing club’s boat to practice slalom discipline (Ski Nautique 200 or Mastercraft 190 ProSar).
So What can I do to reduce these waves ?
Do you think that install some flaps can improve really the furrow to practice slalom ? I know that installation would be not easy caused by the hull’s form but if it’s interesting I could do a proper and professional installation.
Do you think that with electrical flaps, the waves would be better too for the wake and surf ?
Have you already installed flaps on a SN200V boat and what were the result ? If you already done, what brand and models do you recommend ?
Do you think that put some weight on the bow seats can straighten out the boat and reduce the waves ??? How many Weights ?
Have you others solutions or advices ?
Thanks in advance for your further answers. I'm sure that somebody of you can help me !
Philippe
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Comments

  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,220 Administrator
    @Philippe_D is this the boat?


    if so - it is a v drive with the engine in the back. Unfortunately I don't think you will be able to make the wakes much smaller. The boat is literally designed to make bigger wakes.

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  • Philippe_DPhilippe_D Posts: 8 New Baller
    Thanks for you message. I understand your opinion but it's exactly the same hull than the SKI NAUTIQUE 200. Just the position and the weight is on back side. When I use it with the small speed, less than 49 km/h the boat line is not horizontal like a specific ski boat. So I think than if I can straighten out the boat with something ( flaps or bow weight ) I hope that the waves could rediuce.
    Do you know somebody who have got this boat and practice the slalom ?
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,220 Administrator
    @Philippe_D unfortunately weight distribution is a critical factor

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  • dchristmandchristman Posts: 1,209 Mega Baller
    edited November 2020
    I would recommend an adjustment to 80% slalom 20% figures, drop the wakeboard and surf, and trade the SN200V for a SN200.
    Is it time to ski, yet?
    Horton
  • dvskierdvskier Posts: 696 Crazy Baller
    Or buy a SN 196 to ski behind.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,220 Administrator
    @slow we're giving him honest informed answers. what do you want?

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    Masterline ★ Performance Ski and Surf ★ Reflex ★ Radar ★ Stokes 

  • jayskijayski Posts: 997 Mega Baller
    I have skied behind one and it is not that bad, as @Justin says some ballast and it's reasonable, I am sure trim tabs and prop change would assist also...
    Philippe_D
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 4,561 Mega Baller
    My experience with this (205V vs 205DD watercrafts) would be as follows - with the same hull but the V-Drive configuration wake plates/trim tabs do not help they tend to push the water down and it comes back up eventually it doesn't' go away - so if you get to skiing faster and shorter they may help but if you're asking this question about lower speeds my experience is that with all the weight in the rear of the boat they just push more water down which then comes back up later.

    Reduce what weight you can in the back of the boat - move what weight you can forwards.

    Props - you might find one that's better, but for a narrow performance zone.

    The best thing I've found is just simply giving up on the official rope lengths and figure out where the wakes are best at the speeds you run. On the 205V at 30 MPH I really liked 25 off and really hated 22 off. This might vary with different props too. But physics is physics.

    Is it going to make your tournament pass at 22 off great? No - but you will ski your 22 behind a modern boat if you can ski your 25 behind a V drive and you will probably also ski a 28 with better wakes.

    The trim tabs - my opinion is that you'll just feel like you're running into a harder sharper edge where the wake energy is coming up at a different point. They may help the surfing though if you add enough ballast they will increase the surface area of the hull.
    Philippe_DReallyGottaSki
  • slowslow Posts: 439 Crazy Baller
    Horton, at a minimum I expect you to invite Philippe with his boat and LeeSki to your place. Modify the boat as much as possible, keeping it a vdrive and then post videos skiing behind it.
    Philippe_Djayski
  • Philippe_DPhilippe_D Posts: 8 New Baller
    Thanks for your opinions.
    I retain that the Following solutions go in the right direction :
    - used a bow weight (Justin perhaps I have to plan more than a hundred pounds of weight ? )
    - Research of propeller models and their effects on waves (Thanks Justin)
    So I plan to buy a fat sac integrate to or above bow seats with a provisoiry device to fill up and drain. If during the next season, the results are significant so I will do the fix installation with water pompe, water gauge and events integrate on the boat.
  • jpwhitjpwhit Posts: 96 Baller
    I think you missed what is likely the most important suggestion. Which is to get as much weight out of the boat as possible. Especially weight in the back. For example, if you have people riding in the boat, it would be much better to have them move to the bow than to add additional weight to the bow while you are skiing. Assuming the fuel tank is in the back, don't carry more fuel than you need. This may not be a very practical suggestion, but if you don't need the tower, and it is removable, take it off.
    Philippe_D
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,761 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited November 2020
    The fuel tank in a V drive is in front of the engine. In my VTX it makes almost no difference if I have 10 gallons or 40 onboard. Looks like a sport Nautique only carries 28. Moving people to the side and observer seats works well, although the side to side balance is more noticeable than where they sit. Riding people in the bow at ski speeds is just nuts. While we do have a little more freeboard than a DD, it is a terrible place to have people if you need to spin quick for a downed rider.

    As for bow weight - my stock front tank is 150lbs, and I run with it full when I am skiing. I've never skied a Sport Nautique, but a friend of mine sold his and bought a VTX after skiing behind mine - a sample size of 1 but he thought that the wakes were a lot better on the Malibu.
    I am not suggesting you sell your boat - just that some of the suggestions for what works in my V-drive may not do the same thing in yours.
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
    Philippe_D
  • Philippe_DPhilippe_D Posts: 8 New Baller
    Jpwhit, I'm 100% agree with you but I always practice the slalom with only me and my children (11 and 16 years old). So during the run only 2 people stay on the boat and the weigh of these passagers are not significative !
    Oldjeep, your message is interesting because I thing that your boat is really similar that the mine.
    Is the bow tank ballast is original and integrated under the bow seats ? Do you think that only 150lbs is enough ? In my opinion I would like to installe 330lbs ? It's sure that it's easyer to fill a ballast with 50% than added more weight if this one is too small. But I know that drive with a high weight in front on this kind of boat is dangerous !!!!
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,761 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    The ballast in mine is all factory and either under seats or under floor. I've never tried more than 150 since that is as much as it holds and with the 150 in it, you do have to be more careful when slowing and turning around since the bow sits lower than normal. The only issue with trying to install 330lb would be having the space to do it. The factory tank in mine completely fills the area under the bow seating.
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
    Philippe_D
  • elrelr Posts: 328 Mega Baller
    Is your hydrogate down when you slalom? The hydrogate when it is down lifts the back of the boat and makes the wakes smaller and softer.
    Ed Rink - LSF Texas
  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 3,170 Mega Baller
    It skis great providing your using it as a starting dock and sking behind your buddy's pro star!
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.


    HortonVernon Reeve
  • immikerowleyimmikerowley Posts: 24 Baller
    Disclaimer - I'm not a tournament skier more aggressive open water for what its worth.

    So I also have a Sport 200 V. We ski at altitude so i changed the standard prop for better pull off and it changed the experienced and the wake softened.

    I have played with weight forward but to me it didn't make any difference.

    it is a great multisport boat, and perfect for the family needs , surfing, boarding and skiing on the morning glass.

    Is it going to give you a DD wake? no and I don't think any mod or weight change will make a difference. Is it a great cross over ? Absolutely.

    We are lucky to have a old school 92 Brindella which is just ridiculous to ski behind by comparison.

    If you can , i agree with DvSkier, buy a old school DD for your slalom and enjoy the 200 for the family .

    For interest, a pic of wake at 55kph


    jayskiHortonaupatking
  • Philippe_DPhilippe_D Posts: 8 New Baller
    Dear Elr, Thanks for your comments, but let me know how can be used the Hydrogate ? I never see the real difference with or without on all of diciplines: Slalom, wake, surf !
    When it's interesting to use ? Are several models of hydrogate exist ?

    Immikerowley, thanks too for our feedback. Can you inform the the brand and the model of your propeller ? You write that you had played with the bow weight but how many lbs ?

    The_MS, excuse me but I already seen and used several Malibu boats and in my opinion it's not really the same quality of boat, than MasterCraft and Nautique ! So I prefer optimized the use of NS200 used and keep this pretty boat.
  • immikerowleyimmikerowley Posts: 24 Baller
    Hi Phillipe,

    I propped the boat with a ACME 537, but note I have the ZR409 engine and run at altitude- 6000ft.


    At 52kph and up and the shorter lines the Hydrogate definitely makes a difference if engaged, though I find at slower speeds, for my little guys I leave it off as the bump is softer.

    To be sure, I played with weights from 30 to 100kg up front and for me at least none improved the wake.

    The nature of the v drive and engine way back will make the boat sit differently albeit the same hull shape as the 200. Problem is chucking weight forward just makes the whole boat run deeper even if flatter.

    enjoy the boat i love mine

    my 2 cents






    Philippe_Dslow
  • WayneWayne Posts: 555 Solid Baller
    @Philippe_D before adding aftermarket ballast I would look at your wake and ski it outside the course at 49, 52, 55 and 58 KPH. You will notice the wake will progressively improve. What I have noticed with the v-drives that use a ski boat type hull is you cannot defeat the physics of the hull hydrodynamics and weight distribution. There will be a critical speed where the hull is not generating enough lift to reduce the wetted surface and the wakes. Adding weight to change hull balance will more than likely not have the result you are looking for.

    I would move passengers in the boat to see the effect before purchasing/installing ballast.
    Philippe_D
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,562 Mega Baller
    Ok run at least 34 mph...and shorten the rope to where you need to have the best wake(likely 28 or 32 off). If you are not a shorter line tourney skier it may seem you are narrow at shorter lines as opposed to what you are used to.
    You can be wider and hit a big bump, or you can be narrower, hit a smaller one, and learn to work on width over time.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
    aupatkingslow
  • elrelr Posts: 328 Mega Baller
    edited November 2020
    Hydrogate is adjusted by moving a lever that is located by the windshield on the drivers right. On my 196 there is a label for slalom and trick/jump on the plate that goes around the lever - push or pull the lever to the discipline you are going to do. On my 196 there is a noticeable difference even at slow speed - but the v-drive may need more speed for the slalom wakes to flatten and soften. I am only aware of one type of hydrogate.
    Ed Rink - LSF Texas
    Philippe_DSkirvind
  • Philippe_DPhilippe_D Posts: 8 New Baller
    M. immikerowley, thanks for your precisions. I check my propeller reference and I saw that it's the same like you ACME 537. But I integrate now than the wave side or the wave profile can be changed with the propeller design. So I visited the "acmemarine.com" web side and I saw that he propose serveral prpeller model for each boat depending on the intented use. So I will consult them.
    aupatkingDW
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,761 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited November 2020
    I don't know if a 1939 will fit a sport nautique or not, but the old stock ski prop on the VTX was the 537, and the newer improved one was the 1939. I've had both on my VTX and the 1939 is definitely the better prop on my boat. The 1939 creates a little taller looking wake in the middle but it is mush so aside from looking at it you would never know it was there. On my boat the 1939 tops out at around 47mph (Monsoon 350SS) on smooth water - previous owners had also used the boat for some barefooting off a pylon boom.
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • buechsrbuechsr Posts: 89 Baller
    edited December 2020
    Philippe, 537 actually seems to be a reasonable start for a slalom focused prop.

    If youre running a vdrive heavy like most people, a larger diameter with less pitch is desired. However, that means the prop is spinning big (ger) rpms at slalom speed and disturbing more water due to the diameter. You want as small a diameter as possible (likely 13") and steepen the pitch and cup. The 537, I recall, has a .105 cup so not much more to go there, but an acme 497 will get you to a 17.5" pitch (from 16"). That move will certainly not hurt the wake/wash, but will it get it to your standard? Don't know. It will improve it though.

    As to your "flaps" proposal, for years Malibu has offerred the scarpa suppression plate which essentially acts like a big trim tab. It is preferable for (some) barefooters as it sharpens the wake crests, however, it also makes them harder. Using the SSP is not preferred by any slalom skier. As you drive the bow of the boat deeper at speed (which is what will happen with your proposed "flaps") you will experience the same, and it also bring the propwash higher. Not a solution I would be pursuing. That said, there are reports that some people with Malibus are running the wedge in "lift" mode (requires power wedge 2 or 3) at ski speeds. I've never tried that with any of my malibu Vdrives because the speed warnings will go off like a Christmas tree in a lightning storm. On paper your trim tab theory can de-weight the stern but doesn't necessarily make the change worth it because it will degrade in other ways.

    In summary, try a smaller steeper prop, and get some weight up front. YMMV.
  • drfreddrfred Posts: 6 New Baller
    i saw this thread late . like old jeep i had a 2013 malibu 20 vtx (kind of similar to yours)and filling the front ballast tank is critical to flattening out the boat. also every mph above 32 minimum helps tremendously. There also likely is a sweet spot at 15 or 22 off. unfortunately the Nautique is probably heavier (similar to later vtx's) and the slalom wake in my friends '18 nautique is not good. This year i threw in the towel and bought a new prostar and separate wakeboard boat. about the only crossover for 80% slalom might be a malibu xti, which i really liked but they were not popular and were discontinued more than 10 years ago. second best might be a 2013-2015 malibu vtx with a full front ballast tank. that boat also surfs reasonably well. to answer your question you need at least 100lbs in the bow and if you're not in the course or you're really good ski at 34+ mph. if you pick up a used malibu crossover, make sure it has the slalom or 3-D hull. you don't want a wake hull.
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