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Eric for the last time why is a lighter better

HortonHorton Posts: 28,943 Administrator
edited December 2010 in Skis Fins Bindings
Eric, remind me why you think ski weight so darn important
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Comments

  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,339 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Would like an explanation,too.  My high wrap w/RTP set up makes my ride lighter than other skiers who ride dbl bindings, even if my ski is heavier...does this matter?  How about the weight of my vest, whether or not I wore a shorty that day etc.  Would seem to me a pound or two one way or another is a small proportion of the over 200 lbs I carry between body/ski/bindings/gear.  I would think 10 lbs less body weight would matter more than 1 lb in the ski.  Looking forward to thoughts/insight on the matter. 
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • h2odawg79h2odawg79 Posts: 599 Baller
    Just idle chatter, but, considering how much of a difference a light pair of running shoes makes compared to a Hvy'r pair or (a more exagerated example) The cumbersome feeling of ankle wgt's vs. no wgt's,  -I would think a noticable effect might be made during the Edge change and in carrying the ski to and from the Boat. 
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,975 Infinite Pandas
    <p>
    Bottom line: I ski better on a light ski as measured by buoy count in slalom and point total in tricks.
    </p>
    <p>
    Why, because in slalom the ski can snap to where it belongs much easier. That makes the light ski feel much more responsive. Rolling on edge, casting out, advancing the ski and recovering from a form break are all easier with less mass resisting the movement. Flip side is bouncing in rough water.
    </p>
    <p>
    In tricks, toe steps and ski line tricks are in my runs only because of the extra float that a light ski allows. Swing weight is critical for turns. Flip side - less stability and smoothness (especially for surface toes) and possibly a center of balance that underbalances flips.
    </p>
    <p>
    Binding weight is important. Maybe less critical than ski weight but still important. Switch to Radar boots and Nascar drill the plates to save some useless weight.
    </p>
    <p>
    Excess body weight is worth 1 buoy per 5 pounds according to the BOS wisdom. Look at the skiers at Regionals and Nationals - they are much lighter than the typical Disneyland visitor.
    </p>
    <p>
    Weight is a subtle effect. A well designed heavy ski is better than a crappy light ski. But the light version of the ski will outperform the heavy version (I liked the Monza and hated the System 8 - same mold).
    </p>
    <p>
    Modern high performance skis are now reasonably light. Shaving a few grams off a light ski won't change anything but adding pounds will.
    </p>
    <p>
    Eric
    </p>
  • DWDW Posts: 2,131 Mega Baller
    To get the idea of effect of weight on a ski try this:  Take a full barbell  w/o weights and twist (swing) it while holding it in the center.  Then add a set of weights to it and try again while noticing the difference.  I know this is a bit exteme but it gets the idea across.   
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,004 Mega Baller
    How does the weight of the Radar Vice compare to the Strada? It seems potentially like the perfect way to test the impact of weight although the flexes might be different.
    Mark Shaffer
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,100
    But then you also hear some people talking about swing weight.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • DustyDusty Posts: 315 Baller
    <p>
    Like Eric says- and as one of our best skiers explained to me-  with the skis so light already,  incrementally taking that last 4 ounces out of the ski might cost $200k in R & D, and end up with a ski that could  give us one(?) buoy but also may not  last very long.  For $30 per month we can join a gym, lose 10-15 pounds, and maybe add several buoys. Potential cost benefit/buoy is a lot higher...  Wear and tear on skis, body and other equipment is lower too maybe.
    </p>
    <p>
    I think we will all buy the buoys we can, but at some point paying to visit a coach or two, losing the 10-15 and just skiing smarter may pay off better for us.
    </p>
  • eddie_roberts_jreddie_roberts_jr Posts: 450 Water Ski Industry Professional
    Chef -The Strada weighs right at 1 pound less than the Vice. The flexes are very close with the Vice crafted slightly softer.
  • boarditupboarditup Posts: 585 Crazy Baller
    <p>
    The motion of the ski that makes a difference in slalom is not lateral, but vertical.  The ski's weight around the turn should have little difference in how the ski responds (the mass of the ski is a fraction of the total mass moving and the movement is against the water).  The motion of the ski coming across the wakes, where the ski absorbs and returns energy in a vertical plane (in relation to the ski) makes the most difference.  If you have a heavy ski, the ski will both spend more time in the air and more time running deeper in the water.  In both cases, the ski loses speed.  Often, those struggling in the course lose out in the wake crossing - they lose speed and/or break at the waist.  Same thing goes with the hook-up after the turn - except that is typically a technique issue and not a ski weight issue.
    </p>
    <p>
    If you are scrapping though the course, the lighter the ski and the binding, the easier it will be to move around as it has less mass.
    </p>
    <p>
    The prospect of losing sufficient weight to ski better is difficult for us tall and big-framed guys.  It is simply just another challenge in the sport.  At my height, in my 20's, I was under 210 only after a month-long bout with illness.
    </p>
    <p>
    I think we are at or near the point of diminishing returns in terms of weight.  Shape and rebound properties are likely the next chapter in ski evolution as Eddie and the Strada/Vice have demonstrated.
    </p>
    Karl DeLooff - Powered by the wind
  • HortonHorton Posts: 28,943 Administrator
    <p>
    In trick skis  -I totally understand that a lighter ski for toes is better. I am not sure what he is using today but a few years ago Jimbo’s wake ski was a brick. For that matter, the best wake ski I ever had was home made and was super heavy.
    </p>
    <p>
    One theory I have hear about the super light slalom skis is that they rebound faster. That is about the only thing that makes sense to me. On the other hand I do not need a ski to turn faster. I need a ski to carve a more efficient path.
    </p>
    <p>
    I am planning to return to structured ski reviews again next year and the first thing I am going to do is compare the Strada to a Vice. With any luck I will FINALLY have data acquisition to the results will be less anecdotal. 
    </p>
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