Best ski to ride on for collegiate girl water skiers? Side Slide or 360?

AmandaLR

Hey guys, I am a collegiate water skier at Iowa State and wanted to hear your opinion on the butter knife ski that Radar makes. What do you think is that fastest way for a girl to learn how to run the course, a lot of my teammates have been using the HO Syndicate and I think that ski is almost too good for it to beneficial at their skiing ability. Also some of my teammates use Connelly jump skis, but a lot of them struggle to actually go around buoys, as in they can't really turn that well. Are there any skis that you would recommend to beginner skiers that can help them run the course quickly?

Also on another side topic, do you think it is easier to teach someone a side slide or a 360? For a 360 it's nice because there is no need to stop you just rotate around. But so many collegiate skiers are taught a side slide first, but should we really be teaching them this first if sometimes they don't get all the way to a 90 degree angle and therefore doesn't even get credit for it.

Broussard

On the side slide versus 360 deal: The key is being able to control the ski. I have seen cases where skiers struggle to learn a side slide, but I would suggest going to a back or 180 instead of jumping to an O or 360.

Trying to learn a 360 without properly learning how to control the ski will likely result in the skier "hucking" themselves around and trying to use their shoulders and upper body to turn the ski. These are bad habits to get into.

lpskier

Best ski(s) for collegiate skiers to be able to run six buoys in a row are jump skis. If you want to help your team, six buoys on jump skis is way better than three on one ski.

First thing to learn on trick skis is a back to front. Get up backwards and turn to the front. At least that’s the way I did it circa 1970.

Horton

@lpskier

First thing to learn on trick skis is a back to front. Get up backwards and turn to the front. At least that’s the way I did it circa 1970.

lpskier

Well, John, that’s just the way Jim McCormick taught it back then.

Horton

@lpskier
Jim McCormick = Legend
Any coaching advice from 50 years ago = likely should not be repeated

mike_mapple

I was taught 180 to reverse before I was taught side slide.


Also the butterknife would be a great choice for learning the course over a jumper, which is nice to teach someone how to get up on a single ski, but the buoy turn is hard. While you can teach someone to ski on anything, a butterknife, or any "entry level" (hate that phrase) ski will be easier.

My dads favorite thing to tell people "you can learn to drive in a Ferrari, but the civic costs less and gets you from point A to B as well"

Hallpass

How does a Triple Britney measure up against a Triple Panda? What is the relative level of respect or shame to be attributed? Want to be sure I have this correct.

Horton

@Hallpass I do not think there is an exact numerical formula but generally speaking one Britney is about a thousand Pandas.

Than_Bogan

Us science nerds thought kPa stood for kiloPascals to measure gas pressure, but it turns out it stands for kiloPanda, which is also sometimes referred to as a Britney.

Never say BoS is not educational!

Horton

@Than_Bogan it is variable depending on temperature and pressure

75Tique

Wait a minute, are you saying I should not be using my 55 year old Al Tyll book for instruction?





As far as side slide vs 360: First, one of the answers implied she was working on one ski. If she is just learning trick skis, I would say stay on two. Body position, handle passing are enough to worry about without worrying about balance. I always found one ski akin to standing on a bar of soap in the shower. When I was learning trick skis, my instructor (not a professional, just my neighbor) wanted me to learn a side slide. I found that very difficult and found it much easier to move on to 180s. 360s followed.

As far as the advice about learning 180s by getting up backwards, that reminded me of a story a friend told me. He said the way he was "instructed" to learn barefooting was to jump out of 2 skis. I think his barefooting career lasted a grand total of 15 minutes.

Horton

I'm trying to think of subject matters where 50 year old textbooks are relevant today. The only non-academic ones that comes to mind is cook books. I suppose textbooks from history math and science could be good reference points from 50 years ago.

I'm sure the technique and theory from some sport is still relevant from 50 years ago but I can't imagine what it is.

Horton

@AmandaLR
As far as the actual subject of this thread. I don't remember the last time I taught somebody to ride two trick skis. The "one ski" progression I use is as follows: sideslide, back wrap, then two handed back or 360.

6balls

OK trick run for every person on your team who is not a good slalom trick skier to fill out your score sheet:
side- side
180-180
360-360
If anyone can do more than that, great. If anyone can slalom trick and do stuff---they are your 1 in the line-up. If anyone can wakeboard it counts as slalom trick and let them throw all kinds of stuff

For slalom, on jumpers you can run really low speeds and long lines and the skis will support you---so make sure you have at least 5 guys and and least 5 girls who can get 6 balls...running jump skis if needed.

You can still practice on the slalom ski and work for it--please do...but get your points on jumpers if necessary on tourney day. You probably have some better skiers on the team who run it on slalom perhaps to shortline--that's great...they are your top skiers...but fill out your line up scoring points by getting around 6 buoys. Kinda strange but I've seen a good wakeboarder run the course as well on the wakeboard at slower speed and longer lines in college and get good points.

This is the formula for midwest teams to go to nationals...but few organize and do it this way--they just keep beating their heads against the wall on a slalom ski getting 2 buoys on tourney day and no real points...save the 2 ball or 4 ball passes for practice as you work your way to 6 and more!

As for the butterknife or syndicate--probably more depends on the skier than the ski in my opinion you should be fine on either.

Kelvin

Get 2 of the same brand slalom skis and ride them as a pair. Its 1000 times easier for a beginner to run the course than jump skis.

unksskis

@AmandaLR are you talking 1 or 2 trick skis?

AmandaLR

@unksskis , @Horton A couple of skiers on our team can do a decent collegiate trick run. The next level of trick skiers can get up on a single trick ski and I had them practicing jumping wakes to get stable and balanced. But nearly nobody can successfully do a side-slide and reverse without falling. So I'm thinking I should just skip those and move to 180's or 360's and their reverses. But want to see if that seems like the right focus this Spring when we can get on the water.

Nobody wants to do a trick run on 2 skis because that's not kewl. They see the better skiers on 1 make it look easy and think they should just hop up and do that. So peer pressure comes into play. I've thought about running a tournament set on 2 skis to get 660 pts and show my teammates this will place well. But not sure this will really change anyone's mind about 2 skis.

AmandaLR

@6balls Kind of like my trick ski post, a few of us can run the slalom course fairly well, especially for Midwest collegiate teams. But as you point out, the way to rank higher as a team is for your 3rd and 4th skiers to ski a full pass. At any speed. This is what Wisconsin-LaCrosse does well. So I'm looking for a ski, or skis, to help the slower speed skiers get through the course. They want to borrow my slalom ski (D3 ARC) and of a couple other good skis which I don't mind, but I was thinking a wider flatter ski might be better and was looking for advice.

Jumpers don't go so well. And it is a cut to the ego to use them instead of a slalom ski. I like @Kelvin's idea of two slalom skis and of the same size, but we aren't overflowing with money for the skiers interested but not dedicated to the results.

Broussard

A lot of people jump straight into learning tricks (understandable for collegiate bc tricks =points) but this can be extremely frustrating for skiers. If you understand how to stand on a trick ski and are able to control the ski, learning tricks is much easier.

Have your skiers learn to stand on the ski, edge, jump the wakes etc. Another good drill is to take your rear foot out of the ski and try to edge the ski using only your front foot. This forces you to find the center of the ski while bending your front ankle.

Throw a couple of kids on trick skis at the same time and have them just play around. They will lean a lot about how to ride and control a trick ski and it is a lot more enjoyable than side slide -> fall.

6balls

U can also do a basic 2 ski trick run, then drop a ski and throw a slide on the slalom. I was not a tricker but did the side/side/back/back/360/360 then would drop on ski and go side/side on the slalom trick. I was also a ride-over jumper who almost always landed, and slalom was my schtick.
Balance of points/team success/fun in the midwest on ski teams. Good luck and cool to have you on the forum

RichardDoane

There’s a 1995 Kidder Redline on SIA for $40. Put a Wiley binder and a toe plate and it will be just fine for learning the course.

Horton

@RichardDoane

RichardDoane

Thanks @Horton but you’re missing the point. Any ski will work if it’s sized appropriately for the skier and has a comfy binding when you’re learning. It’s the Indian , not the arrow. There’s no need to spend a bunch of money on a new ski for that level of skier ability.

Horton

@RichardDoane it's my contention that with terrible 40 +year-old equipment it's twice as hard to learn.

RichardDoane

@horton. The Kidder Redline was my wife’s favorite ski back in the day, shame on you for calling it terrible.

6balls

I just want to coach a college team...but don't live near one. Would be fun!

BraceMaker

@AmandaLR if you haven't tried a butterknife or the hovercraft - you can go REAL slow like 15 mph if needed. I'd probably go butterknife because youd want a better binding than the ones HO has on direct connect.

These are exactly what you're talking about full pass slow as you can go. And not expensive.

6_Buoys

@AmandaLR the butterknife is what you need as an answer to your question. Money issue, then take an old 69 or 70 slalom ski and cut the last 4-5 inches off the tail and cut in a fin slot. You will have a wide tail ski that will stay up in the turns and still get some acceleration. Will work great for long line and slow. Trick question: skip the trick ski and put the beginners on a wakeboard and teach them to spin around a bunch of times in both directions. Easier than learning a trick ski in one semester and lots of points.