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ski set up for swing?

BuxrusBuxrus Posts: 61 Baller
So this is my question: Is there a ski set up to allow a ski to have that automatic swing or "flip" at CL or into the second white water?

I'm going into my fourth season on 2019 radar PB. Avg. practice score 3-4 @ 38. " in season" I rarely miss 35. But only ran 5 38's last yr. I really feel my short coming is I CANNOT do this flip or swing deal. If I concentrate on it, I can MAKE it happen at 28-32 but then its just ski and get out 6 and gate at 35 and 38.

So what I have I done to correct me? (yes I imagine it could be me the skier) I have watched the Denali gate video ad nauseum. I probably could quote it verbatim. I also am starting this season on NRG R2. So as LFF, I have never been a follower of let the arms go away from body on drop in to gate. I always squeezed my elbows into my sides and pushed my right hip/ trochanter toward the gate and allowed the ski to catch the edge and then go.

Well I have been doing/attempting the DG (denali gate) with the new ski. Free skiing due to 46* water being to cold to hook buoys on subs. during these sets, I actually felt the flip happen, from gate drop in and all subsequent turns and cuts while free skiing. video confirmed it. Ok 3 sets in the course, the first two sets, very good results. 28's very good. 32's struggled at first but suddenly felt like mid season 32's. So tonight I purposely went back to my old gate and the ski did not flip at CL, stayed on cutting edge, felt fast, could not slow it into buoy, tip rise on both sides......just hair on fire skiing. Last three passes, I went back to DG. Bam. The ski rolled at CL, basically back sided every buoy at 28 and 32, controlled, decelerate into the buoy, turned and carried angle back to CL. Totally different experience.

So my epiphany: The DG allows me to load the rope, build angle into CL with out loading the ski, which allows the ski to roll on turning edge. BUT, is there a fin set up that also enhances this flip, roll, swing movement of the ski at CL? OR is this swing mechanism that I seek more a result of loading the rope but NOT the ski?

thank you in advance


  • GloersenGloersen Posts: 1,089 Mega Baller
    edited April 5
    peruse the spraymakers podcasts; @Chris Rossi @TFIN - season 1. There are so many variables affecting the setup;and if just one conducive setup existed; we'd all be using something similar.
  • ghutchghutch Posts: 166 Baller
    Talking with Caldwell this is territory that takes alot of work to figure out (35-38). The ski is doing things at shorter line than longer and different settings help with this. Its a matter of playing with your settings and being willing to try new things. The ski won't feel as good at 28-32 but will come alive around 35-38. I've felt this some with my skiing and its hard to wrap your head around. 28 pass-sucked...32 a little better...35 oohhh yeah! 38.... too excited. Man I love this sport!! Good luck
  • ColeGiacopuzziColeGiacopuzzi Posts: 474 Open or Level 9 Skier
    edited April 5
    @Buxrus post some video It will help to see what the ski is doing and how you approach the gate. Remember We can only achieve the edge change we want when we have built efficient speed and angle from buoy to 1st wake. After that from centerline out to the buoy is 1 big turn. Think of the course spilt in half. When we don’t have a great turn and have less than ideal angle and speed at the finish; edge change will happen later and we will run a later faster line though the course. Like @Gloersen there’s so many variables in ski settings that affect The edge change. we can make the ski roll faster but will put the ski on the inside edge to soon and it will be hard to create width since the ski will apex to soon. Having it roll over slower will make it harder to initiate the edge change when you want and will happen later. It’s finding that happy medium. I mean I will say it’s worth trying new settings never be afraid of change in this sport. This conversation can also go into short deep vs long/shallow. One of those allows you to have more input while the other let’s the ski carve more freely in my opinion.
    liquid d
  • liquid dliquid d Posts: 1,320 Mega Baller
    agree with Cole,....and put your settings online...fin and boots.
  • BuxrusBuxrus Posts: 61 Baller
    Thanks gentlemen. My fin settings are completely stock. My FB is back 1/8”. I am not hesitant to change fin settings if things aren’t working. I also understand shallower fin helps the swing I seek.

    I guess my frustration is I see so many skiers do this movement and it appears to be automatic, almost reflexive. I was doing a lot of this type “drill skiing” while I was free skiing. When it happens, I almost think in my head I know I am going to make this pass and I can really continue to concentrate on other attributes of skiing.

    I will attempt to get some video. Thanks again for the input.
  • AdamCordAdamCord Posts: 919 Open or Level 9 Skier
    I'll also jump in and comment that what @adamhcaldwell is talking about is especially critical for LLF skiers. When we did the Gate video we tried to make it as foot forward agnostic as possible, but there are some differences between LFF and RFF gates.

    A RFF skier can build into a stronger lean and leveraged position because it's an onside pull through the gate. A LFF skier can't do that so they need to be very cognizant of their speed relative to the boat and make sure they have the line from a very wide point and as Caldwell says get your body rotating before the rope load starts to climb. That will give you a long "runway" to build speed into the first wake, which is the top prerequisite for the swing you are looking for.

    @Buxrus what you're talking about with your old gate, on edge too long, fast and hair on fire into buoys, is what happens when your speed into the wakes is too low for the amount of angle you have, so you end up having to stay on edge after the point where the handle is starting to go up and around the boat. That causes you to separate and get shot on a fast and narrow path to the buoy.

    In contrast with the Denali gate we want you to generate swing speed before the wakes so that your ski can be coming OUT of angle behind the boat, letting you ride the same path as the handle on the way out to the buoy line.

    TLDR: Most people's gates have too much angle and not enough speed at the 2nd wake. Denali Gate gives you more speed with less angle so you can connect and swing.
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,207
    The one thing I can add is that Adam Caldwell's explanation is EXACTLY how Will Asher was coaching me on gates 6+ years ago. Almost word for word.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • BoozeBooze Posts: 442 Crazy Baller
    @ColeGiacopuzzi - "..from centerline out to the buoy is 1 big turn."
    I like that simple concept or approach. It's not particularly mechanical or technical and encourages you to work out the mechanics on your own terms.

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