Reinvent my onside

Horton

Enough is enough. My onside has been a mess for my whole skiing life. I see what I do at apex and I am sickened by it. See 2 ball below. My left shoulder cocks back all of a sudden and then my mass follows. I am committed to learning to drive forward and minimize upper body movement. I have already heard a few suggestions and am trying some stuff but I am open more ideas.

MISkier

At point of edge change/preturn of two ball, it looked like you leaned back to the boat with your body before the ski actually started to ride out on the other edge. That is, it looked like you led the edge change from your upper body. Other edge changes in that pass had the ski rolling onto the other edge underneath more upper body stillness (which was also more upright during those transitions). Those other onside edge changes/preturns looked a bit better. If you are leaning into the boat with your upper body too early, rather than letting the ski finish the edge change underneath you and start riding out to apex, it could feel like a little bit of lost connection and more downcourse. That might feel fast coming into the buoy and you compensate by pulling that shoulder back to adjust that connection and prepare to take the hit that you suspect is coming.

Still really good skiing, though.

skibug

this is a "me too" movement as my onside haunts me and holds me back from being a better skier.

jayski

ummm reach ahead instead of out to the side..which "good" skier do you see that doesn't reach "down the ski" or "ahead"

KISS...don't overthink it, but I mean IF you want to overthink it, that failure starts at your gate..it always starts with gates...

Horton

@jayski I have thought about that approach. Reaching forward is for sure on my list of possible solutions. It is not my prime solution because I have a tendency to let my shoulders move forward when I reach forward.

jayski

@Horton and that's bad? I mean with that do you hinge at the waist... and leave the dump truck behind??

Horton

@jayski Yea I think if my shoulders move forward my hips will drop. I think my lower mass needs to move first.

Yesterday I was playing with pulling my feet back as I approach the ball. Same thing as driving knees forward. Odd thing was when I work on this I throw the handle out early and high. I have ZERO understanding of why that was happening. This is going to be a project.

Bruce_Butterfield

What I see is you yanking the handle into your sternum with your hips dropping back simultaneously. Normally the cause is prior to the obvious mistake, but in this case I think yanking the handle in is the root cause. The bad news is the likely solution is between your ears:) You just need to be patient and let the ski complete the turn, leave the handle out and ski under it. Easy to say, but for many skiers its not easy to do.

But, damn that ski looks good.

adamhcaldwell

Might consider a touch more depth in the fin.

BlueSki

Question: are you letting your left hip fall behind slightly and right shoulder rotate down course a bit going into 1/3/5? Going to 2/4/6 you don’t have the same appearance, you seem more still. No offense, but I’m treating this like a test for me, so I am less concerned about your offside and more concerned with whether or not I am noticing the right thing.

Andre

Interrested to see if you'll be able to change 47 years of skiing that way...That's the hardest part IMO.

PurdueSkier

I am not an expert but throw in my observation....it looks like as you come into the apex your hips remain outbound/open. As you come around the buoy you are rotating your shoulders but much slower to rotate your hips. I know some people ski with more open hips but on your onside it looks more like you are sliding your hips around the buoy and not turning. I think this is causing a slow rotation of the ski, causing slack, causing you to fall back on the rope and ski......or your pull out for the gates was all wrong.

ForrestGump

I slowed it down and watched it twenty times. Man, that movement off the ball at 2 and 4 is odd. What I do notice, though, is that you are off the handle much earlier going into 1/3/5. The ski has barely rolled under you and your letting go.

thager

Change to LFF to get your onside on the correct side of the course. Please take video!

6balls

You’re reaching very high and your hand up when you’re about to conclude— above your head. Then when you snatch in the slack it looks like almost ran over the rope.

I’m with Jay on a little forward in the Reach. Don’t overexaggerate it—-subtle. How much wing angle?

Hips are very open looks a little like you are opening them in preturn (left rotated)which starts you rearward which pushes reach up and the there is some kind of wakeboard turn falling back, pelvis facing up that results.

Can u keep from rotating your frame and torso so chest and pelvis to the shore? You wind it out a little too far and then have to unwind in the turn as a result.

Very fixable u can do it!

A_B

A couple things to think over.

I am a little opposite on the counter rotating and think you could do more sooner. Look for a straight line down the line and through your shoulders.

You seem to want to yank the handle in to your middle instead of skiing your left hip around to the handle.

You get into a bent forward mode from inertia so try to tighten your core and absorb the turn more in your body vs back.

You might want to try “sitting on the ball” with your hip and getting the ski around and hold that position instead of pulling in on the line and then moving over to your left hip.

FWIW.

AB

ski6jones

@adamhcaldwell what did you see that made you suggest more depth? Just curious.

RichardDoane

first world problem, @Bruce_Butterfield +1 on the ski looking good, and patience-handle on time

Deanoski

your boot not flat so it make you sit back. if your a real real good skier you can make the movement with any set up the rest of ( walleys) it really effects our stance.

Horton

@A_B that is exactly what I am trying to unlearn. Counter rotation seems works great on the dock or in theory but it does not work for me. It is why I am back.

Horton

@jayski your bodies are like hinges... Generally if your shoulders go forward your hips are going back I want my COM forward. Handle forward works for a lot of skiers but I think I want my forward move to be in my lower body.

A_B

@Horton, okay I get it doesn't work for you, but it doesn't sound like you think what you are doing instead is working either. My body gets sore just watching that pass. (I am 62 though and used to muscle my way around back in the day, maybe that is why my shoulders, wrists, and fingers feel 82?).

Wherever your chest is pointed is where the ski is going to be driven, and at the finish of the turn you are driving it down abruptly and hence the pull into your midsection is needed to complete the turn, versus a more erect posture and bringing the left hip around to carve a turn, you are just stopping, muscling the handle, and then holding on. It still goes in the books as 6, but man that looks like a lot of work, and only gets harder when the person in the boat brings you closer.

I wouldn't rule out you trying to drop your right hip down on the buoy with a tight upper abdomen while bringing the left hip around, that could give you better body position right away other than having to fight to gain it back, which you are doing.

Horton

@Bruce_Butterfield I think the yanking of the handle is an automatic response to the ski not carving back in. If the ski was rotating I think it would be much less tempting to yank. Frankly without the yank I think it am plowing straight down the lake which is why I am focused on moving forward and much less counter.

We will see.

MISkier

I still think your issue is the ski not riding out optimally to apex, which is why it isn't carving back in like you want (feeling fast and downcourse and not rotating).

MISkier

One other thought: maybe that is what the additional fin depth is supposed to address?

jayski

@Horton "your bodies are like hinges... Generally if your shoulders go forward your hips are going back I want my COM forward". I disagree in part...as yes we posses hinges but...

This only occurs if your brain allows that to happen

"Handle forward works for a lot of skiers but I think I want my forward move to be in my lower body"

a handle forward cures much more than just COM shift...It also equates to level shoulders, inhibits "falling in" at the buoy, increased width, and even a inhibits a 'blocking' rotation at the finish of the turn...if you want to focus on your 'lower body' then focus on your right hip moving ahead initially then the handle release being ahead...one can and needs to find the simple cue/movement/thought that causes execution of a number of positive results

adamhcaldwell

The shoulders need to be more in line with the skis bank angle both on the way out and the way back in from apex. If your falling "in" at the ball, then the issue is gate timing and being out of synch with the boat at the turn finish, or a ski setup issue that's putting you too fast at the apex. Falling in is not caused by "unlevel shoulders".

For your RFF heel side turn, A moment before the release try to use the pull from the rope to help you bring the left shoulder higher then the right, and allow the left arm/hand come up the body and extend across the chest (you should see the handle rotate slightly more vertical a moment before the release of the outside hand). This will move your COM further beyond the inside turning edge much more then any form of counter, and also much earlier. (this goes back to the idea of using the body as a lever for mechanical advantage of the turning/loaded edge at all times).

Once the outside hand lets go, keep it under control. I cant stress this enough. Do your best to keep your left hand both out in front of your body AND over the inside edge of the ski - don't allow the left arm fling to shore and closer to the ski - all that is doing is moving mass back toward the ski, takes away your leveraged position and delays the roll and pitch rotation your looking for upcourse of the ball.

If any hand needs to be 'reaching' its the left one to try to keep it moving with your chest and shoulders INTO the turn, and not flinging behind your body and out toward shore in a manner that causes your hips to fall back, shoulders to go level, and ultimately causes both the body and the ski to STOP ROTATING and run parallel down the ball line for a moment that kills the continuity of the turning/rotating ski.

We need to be focused on things that keep the ski turning, and the body turning from the moment we leave CL, to the time were back on the handle at the turn finish.

By not allowing the left arm to swing behind our body and out toward shore, you keep more mass over the inside edge for a longer period of time. You wind up with more ski rotation earlier, which will help you find the support from the boat on the back of the ball faster.

Exaggerate this idea at your earlier lines and see what happens.

Horton

All right I'm going to reread Caldwell's post a few times....

Progress so far is as follows.

Yesterday: I focused on making sure that I was as stacked as possible leaving 1/3/5 ( forward ). From the second wake out to Apex I focused on keeping my mass high and as much to the left as possible. Lastly and most importantly I drove my hips and front knee forward as far as possible from the second week to Apex. Early results are promising.

ForrestGump

hmmmmmmmmmm "A moment before the release try to use the pull from the rope to help you bring the left shoulder higher then the right, and allow the left arm/hand come up the body and extend across the chest (you should see the handle rotate slightly more vertical a moment before the release of the outside hand). "

This is the movement that CP has always done so well.

matthewbrown

Here’s your problem, you are a lifetime away from 2 ball but your body position suggests that the buoy is coming up in about 10 feet. You have sat back through the transition, fallen to the inside and lost all of your edge tension sending you on a narrower path. By the time you get to the buoy you are all out of moves because you did them all too early. Now you have literally nowhere to go but back.

matthewbrown

This is the moment you begin to lose everything