What's safer; 2 mechanical release boots or 2 rubber boots

swbcaswbca Posts: 700 Crazy Baller
edited April 23 in Skis Fins Bindings
I have seen the picture of a skier crossing the wake with his front boot released and the rear boot locked on. Obviously an adjustment problem.

I have no answer to this question. I Only observe that a variant of the rubber boot like the T-Factor provides a progressive release and a mechanical release just snaps off. With decades of skiing, I have never had a fall where only one foot came out of rubber boots. It was all or none. The bad ones with full release probably happen less than 1 per year.

If I used an RTP I would feel safer with a mechanical release in the front to release with spiral forces. With two full boots I have no idea. I imagine this has been hashed over before. If so, I haven't seen it.

I currently have T-Factors front and rear. In my case there is no way to lace up the front that provides an easy "out" compared to a Wiley type boot. With considerable age I am concerned an ankle might break before I get out the binding in an uncontrolled fall. Like others, I love the T-Factor boot . . just not sure (in my case) that it will come off easily enough.
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Comments

  • MastercrafterMastercrafter Posts: 339 Crazy Baller
    This doesn’t answer your question but I’ve had some (tons…) of gnarly falls with a hardshell in the front and Reflex R-style in the back. Clean release every time and zero injuries of any type since I’ve switched.

    Didn’t like a true rear kicker so the r-style was a good compromise.
    GloersenHortonBroussardNando
  • BroussardBroussard Posts: 743 Mega Baller
    Two mechanical releases as in front and back hard-shells with silvretta releases?

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  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 2,168 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    edited April 22
    I only know of 2 skiers who have used dual release reflex setup. Both are very advanced (39 and shorter) skiers who have a history of tinkering with bindings to find the best setup for them. For that caliber of skier, performance is primary and safety is secondary. That setup isn’t something that should be attempted by a lesser experienced skier.

    Most ankle injuries happen with how violently a foot comes out during a fall and is a risk for pretty much any type of rubber binding. If both feet stay snuggly in, the risk of an ankle injury is very low.

    Obviously the one foot in one foot out fall is the most dangerous and what we all want to avoid.

    If you are comfortable that you will stay both feet in with your tfactors that is a very reasonable setup IMO.
    I'm Ancient. WTH do I know?
    GloersenBroussardMDB10566balls
  • dbutcherdbutcher Posts: 540 Crazy Baller
    I've been using Wiley rubber boots for 30-40 years and have had every imaginable kind of fall. I've never had an ankle injury. I probably just jinxed myself.
    MI3EventerMISkier
  • GloersenGloersen Posts: 1,231 Mega Baller
    edited April 23

  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 2,168 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    @swbca 2 more factors to consider for your specific situation.

    First is the "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" issue :) While most kids can transition from rubber to hardshell in a set or 2, you may not have an easy time. I know I attempted to switch from rear hardshell to RTP and finally gave up after about 20 sets. Way too many years of engrained habits to feel comfortable.

    Second is the "you marry your bindings, but date your ski" saying. Once you get comfortable with a given binding setup, it can be very difficult to make a change, even from one type of rubber to another.
    I'm Ancient. WTH do I know?
    6balls
  • HortonHorton Posts: 32,350 Administrator
    edited April 22
    MOB is a good option for double hard shell w/release.

    @mmosley899

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  • skialexskialex Posts: 1,341 Mega Baller
    2 mechanical release (Silvretta type) is the most unpredictable setup. Unless it’s set to not releasing… and still you would not know in which situation one of the two would release, leaving you with one in one out.
    I guess what @Horton said, about the mob for double hardshells. Or double rubber or if you want to use a front hardshell… they usually work well in conjunction with rtp or r-style type of binding.
    BroussardAndre
  • MDB1056MDB1056 Posts: 997 Crazy Baller
    edited April 22
    +1 for @Bruce_Butterfield comments above. I’ve been on double tfactors for 5-6 years now . Taken plenty of good falls . Nearly always both stayed on. Others times both off . Personally I prefer both stay on as helps keep feet/ankles stable . Never had only one come off. Never had an ankle injury. I’m a fan for life.
  • WishWish Posts: 8,539 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    +1 for MOB ..makes the most sense.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • jimskijimski Posts: 622 Crazy Baller
    I have skied with double reflex for about 8 years now. Never had a problem with one not releasing.
    Switched after some serious ankle injuries with double rubber and double semi hard shell.
  • ScottScottScottScott Posts: 1,341 Mega Baller
    edited April 23
    In the picture you mentioned, I think it could certainly be possible that something happened causing more force to the front foot causing it to release, then a little later created the force to the rear that caused it to release, potentially no setup issues and all released without issues.

    I would think that if you're considering a move from rubber to hard shell then the transition would be significant. Maybe a good time to consider also transitioning to an RTP.

    I've been on MOB for a couple years and would certainly recomend either way, 2 boots or just front with RTP.
  • DeanoskiDeanoski Posts: 1,122 Crazy Baller
    T factor rock why change ?
  • swbcaswbca Posts: 700 Crazy Baller
    I didn't mention getting rid of the T-Factors. I skied with the T-Factors last season and never had a fall that would require losing the ski. In my case it difficult to get out of the front boot with the laces fully loosened. With the boot laced up I don't know what it would take to lose the ski. Maybe a few more months of skiing will loosen in up a bit.
    Home of the world's first submersible slalom course
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 6,066 Mega Baller
    Freaking torched my leg in a rubber front and RTP 35 years into use of same. Just took the right fall.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
    DragoThan_Bogan
  • swbcaswbca Posts: 700 Crazy Baller
    @6balls I switched to a full rear boot right after the front rubber boots became more serious. In the Mid 60's Rolland Hilliar and Bill Spencer won World and Masters Titles on the a cypress Gardens LiL Monster with stock consumer binding made of 2 pieces of thin stretchy rubber.
    Home of the world's first submersible slalom course
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 3,767 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    For my money, the Fogman release system was the best, most reliable binding system available. I still ski in them even though technically they are no longer in production and there doesn’t seem to be much progress toward release of the next generation. If I had to buy new bindings today, I’d go with MOB.
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
    Horton
  • HortonHorton Posts: 32,350 Administrator
    In the Mid 60's Rolland Hilliar and Bill Spencer won World and Masters Titles on the a cypress Gardens LiL Monster with stock consumer binding made of 2 pieces of thin stretchy rubber.



    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Connelly ☆DBSkis ☆Denali ☆Goode ☆GiveGo ☆MasterCraft ☆ Masterline 

    Performance Ski and Surf ☆ Reflex ☆ Radar ☆ Rodics OffCourse ☆ S Lines ☆ Stokes ☆

    MastercrafterBruce_Butterfield
  • ski41off_daveski41off_dave Posts: 7 Open or Level 9 Skier
    I have been skiing on Goode Powershells for 15 years and I have never had an injury.
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 5,097 Mega Baller
    @6balls my femur was in one of those Obrien bindings that had the slider and the velcro wraps and a rear toe plate. It shows doesn't take much to crack a leg, if your heel doesn't come up you won't come out even of a low rubber slider from the 80's.

    tjm
  • mmosley899mmosley899 Posts: 740 Water Ski Industry Professional
    @swbca I skied in double hardshell boots on my release system for twenty years, never had only one foot release, skied well into [email protected] Double full hardshell boots do present some challenges to getting the setup correct for your needs. I switched to a half boot rear a few years back and that is what I recommend for most skiers who don't like just the rtp strap.


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