2018 SN 200 won’t crank/start

JmoskiJmoski Posts: 501 Crazy Baller
edited May 6 in Boat Talk
Hi All,

I picked up a 2018 SN 200 Team edition with the H6 motor in the Fall, ran it once then winterized. now after running a few times in the Spring it won’t crank.

I ran it my driveway to dewinterize, ran fine. Then stopping and restarting a second time was a delayed, more labored start, but started.

Launched boat, started okay, skied once. Next morning it won’t crank. I hear the fuel pump come on, then absolutely nothing.

I had a spare battery (granted underpowered from a CCA specs) I swapped it in, boat started up, I skied, shut it off, won’t restart until I turned off everything drawing power, allowing us to get back to the dock.

I replaced the battery with a brand new interstate, started and ran great, skied two times on Sunday. Put the boat back on the lift, turned it off and then flipped the kill switch at the driver feet. Boat is on a covered lift.

Came back 5 days later, boat won’t crank, same behavior as before, keypad and dash has power, fuel pump kicks on and then nothing when trying to start.

I have:

- double checked the safety lanyard
- The boat does not have a code programmed into the keypad
- moved the throttle in and out of gear to make sure it wasn’t engaged.
- Recharged the battery ( it was drawn down from the start tries)
- Put a noco jump starter on the battery - no change
- No codes or errors on the diagnostics screen
- When running I get 14 volts, so I believe the alternator is working
- Visually inspected the fuses in the engine compartment that are in with the relays
- Replaced the ignition relay as it looked a little cooked, the auto parts store only had one, will get another to replace the starter relay tomorrow.

Any ideas of what else to try? Unfortunately I am hours from the nearest CC dealer.

Thanks

Comments

  • skihackerskihacker Posts: 520 Crazy Baller
    Sounds like a bad connection at one of the big cables, red cable at starter solenoid or block ground or something, get a dvom and do voltage drop tests on the whole thing.
    buechsr
  • JmoskiJmoski Posts: 501 Crazy Baller
    Thanks - Alas since I thought I was all set I didn’t bring my multimeter up. I did inspect the connections around the starter and they all seem locked in and I don’t see any significant corrosion.

    One other oddity is when I bought it the Polk head unit that’s normally bolted to a piece of fiberglass that’s glued to the under side of the glove box had “unglued” itself and was hanging by the wires, I glued back, so I wonder if a wire in there got compromised. Hard to think that would stop it from starting.
  • buechsrbuechsr Posts: 214 Baller
    My advice: use a screwdriver to bridge the connections on the starter. If it cranks, its not the starter and move helm-ward. If not, change the starter.
    Hucklefin
  • Not_The_PugNot_The_Pug Posts: 691 Crazy Baller
    edited May 7
    @Jmoski do you turn off the main power switch at night? Because of the computers on these newer boats, they still draw some power from the battery. They will not crank over if the voltage is too low (even though the batter is not dead).
  • JmoskiJmoski Posts: 501 Crazy Baller
    edited May 7
    Yes - I use the red kill switch at night to prevent draining the battery.

    I got it running finally, in the end I suspect I originally had a bad battery, but then created a new problem - my starter and/or neutral switch wiring had gotten a little wet, I had put an xtreme bilge heater in the engine compartment before I left for the work week, it was right by the starter and the neutral switch on the tranny. I noticed some moisture/wetness on the transmission just below. The temps in Maine this past week going from 32 - 55…

    So, having removed the engine cover and had in the sun at the dock for a few hours while I worked on it, it fired right up as it should when I came back down from lunch. I was about to try and jump the starter but for giggles tried to start one more time and she turned right over.

    Before lunch I had tightened up the connections on the starter, ground, etc, and confirmed I had 12v at the starter, but earlier attempts at starting after those changes still failed. I also pulled the plugs and attempted to turn it over to rule out hydro lock. According to the dealer that can happen with the 6.2 motor in very cold water.

    One final observation that points to the neutral switch is my button to rev it in neutral no longer works, it was fine when I ran it in the drive way to dewinterize it.

    Only time will tell if I am in the clear…

  • JmoskiJmoski Posts: 501 Crazy Baller
    Spoke too soon, just went to put it away on the lift and it was dead again, but by chance just after I had hit the start button I giggled the throttle and it immediately started to crank and I got it running.

    So good news it’s clearly related to the neutral switch, so I at least know the source of the issue.
    KRoundyISP6ball
  • skiinxsskiinxs Posts: 724 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    You need a new throttle box. While you have it out go ahead and replace the button that lets you rev it up in neutral, but that isn't really needed for anything. There is a diode in that box that causes failures (part of the neutral safety lock out circuit), all the boat companies that use that box experience failures. Should be still under warranty. It is possible to have the diode changed by the manufacturer of the box (Livorsi) if it is out of warranty, but that could take a while.
    Bruce_ButterfieldJmoski
  • JmoskiJmoski Posts: 501 Crazy Baller
    Thanks @skiinxs
  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 2,259 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    I also had the throttle assembly fail on my 2015. It started randomly and didn't seem to be affected by "jiggling" the throttle, so it was hard to troubleshoot as you have experienced.
    I'm Ancient. WTH do I know?
    Jmoski
  • JmoskiJmoski Posts: 501 Crazy Baller
    Is the throttle body an easy swap out? Thanks
  • skiinxsskiinxs Posts: 724 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Not bad on the 200. Not the throttle body, the hand shift/throttle. Much easier than the old ones with a shift and throttle push/pull cable, only two plugs to unplug once you get it out. pop the upholstered arm rest and side panel off, remove the four attachment screws and unplug.
    Jmoski
  • dbutcherdbutcher Posts: 573 Crazy Baller
    I have a 2015 SN 200 on which the neutral switch does not work, ie I cannot rev the engine in neutral. I have no other problem. Should I be anticipating a problem like Bruce_Butterfield and jmoski had/have? What part(s) should I be ordering - the entire throttle/shift assembly or just the neutral switch itself? Your advice will be appreciated.
  • skiinxsskiinxs Posts: 724 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    The button that lets you rev up in neutral is a separate switch and not related to the neutral safety switch that is inside the throttle box. Those switches fail frequently too, but I don't believe they are any indication that the box will fail. You can replace the button switch if you want, but do you really have a need to rev up in neutral? The old days of having to rev up while a carb motor warms up and the choke opens are gone. The only time I use is with Diacom hooked up so I can rev up at the dock and watch what is going on.
  • dbutcherdbutcher Posts: 573 Crazy Baller
    @skiinxs, thank you. As you suggest, I really don't need to rev in neutral. In fact my neutral switch hasn't worked for some time. I was anticipating that I would have additional trouble; but it's good to know that that is not necessarily so. Thanks again.
  • JmoskiJmoski Posts: 501 Crazy Baller
    edited May 9
    @skiinxs - do you know what the part # or name is on Nautiqueparts.com?

    I see on Miami Nautique website a “Throttle base assembly” - I hope that’s not it cuz it’s $675!
  • skiinxsskiinxs Posts: 724 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited May 9
    @Jmoski It is not a throttle body assembly, that is on the engine. You need a throttle / shift control box, and I think it is a little north of that cost. Sorry, I don't know the part number, but you have a 5 year warranty and a 2018 couldn't have been sold before June 1st of 2017, so it should be less than 5 years old. You should get it replaced under warranty before the boat is 5 years old.
  • KRoundyKRoundy Posts: 657 Crazy Baller
  • skiinxsskiinxs Posts: 724 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @KRoundy No, the one pictured is for throttle-by-wire but still has a a shift cable. The 2018 boxes also have an electric shift solenoid, so no shift push/pull cable.
  • skiinxsskiinxs Posts: 724 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited May 9
    @Jmoski I stand corrected, they apparently do call the throttle box a "throttle base assembly" on the nautiqueparts website. I think you had earlier correctly identified the correct part as THIS part, but it should still be covered under warranty.
    Jmoski
  • JmoskiJmoski Posts: 501 Crazy Baller
    edited May 9
    Thanks - just ordered it. Unfortunately I am not the original owner and they want a fortune to xfer the warranty, I opened up a case with Correct Craft directly to see what they will do.

    I just want my boat running again asap. even if I got it covered under warranty, I’d still have to pull the boat, trailer it 2 hrs to the nearest dealer for “warranty work” who told me he couldn’t look at it until July!
  • skiinxsskiinxs Posts: 724 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @Jmoski Gotcha, I would also send the old one in to Livorsi to have them repair, which will probably take a while, and keep it for a backup.
    Jmoski
  • MDB1056MDB1056 Posts: 1,147 Mega Baller
    Yikes............+1 for older boats
    ISP6ballS1Pitts
  • JmoskiJmoski Posts: 501 Crazy Baller
    @MDB1056 - this does have me questioning my logic for buying the 2018 and selling my 2006 196 that gave me 11 years of flawless use!

    The 200 is awesome though when it starts :-) , I’m sure after a Summer of use with this issue in the past I will not regret making the change.
    j2nh
  • KRoundyKRoundy Posts: 657 Crazy Baller
    Wild. What does my 2016 200 have? All digital or part digital / part cable? Nothing “feels” mechanical about it.
  • jhughesjhughes Posts: 1,245 Mega Baller
    @KRoundy all DBW inc shift and throttle.
    KRoundy
  • JmoskiJmoski Posts: 501 Crazy Baller
    Wanted to close the loop on this with a few tips for anyone else that needs to replace the Base Assembly.

    1. Confirmed replacing fixed my issue!

    2. My neutral button to rev the engine was not in fact broken. Because the unit thought the boat was already in gear - the button input is ignored.

    3. As part of install, once the unit is installed and connected, leave the side panel loose, and reconnect the handle. This allows you to access the two recessed Allen head bolts on the under side of the unit to adjust the play in the throttle while “clicked” into neutral - the bolt closest to the faceplate, the farther bolt adjusts the friction/stiffness of moving the throttle.

    Getting this correct is critical as my replacement from Nautique parts had way too much play/slop in the throttle once clicked into the neutral position - enough where if the handle was off from top dead center, it’s enough to trip the neutral safety switch!

    If you have a 200 and you get a delayed rolling start when you fire it up - I suspect you have too much play in there and you are subconsciously moving the throttle to allow it to start.

    4. To remove the base assembly, pull the top cup holder and the padded side panel, but leave the arm rest pad on the top, removing it won’t help as it’s solid fiberglass under it. After the padded side panel is off it will expose 6 screws, take them out, and there is a bolt on the bottom as well. To remove the handle - pop the plastic cover off the center to expose the Allen head bolt holding it in place. 4 bolts hold the unit in place.

    Pretty straightforward once you know how it’s all put together,
    DavidNBruce_Butterfieldj2nh
  • DavidNDavidN Posts: 613 Crazy Baller
    edited August 28
    2018 Nautique 200 Team with the 6.0l engine, ~380 hours

    I’m experiencing the same issue - intermittent no start (crank), neutral button (below throttle lever) non functional.
    Have no idea for how long that little button is not working as I never use it anyway.
    The no cranking issue started last week when it took a couple attempts to get the boat to finally crank over and start. It started and ran fine like nothing had happened.
    Yesterday it was even worse. Took forever to convince the boat to crank in the morning. When switching skiers at the end of the lake, we weren’t able to get it back running and we had to swim the boat in.
    Swapped a brand new battery in, nothing changed.

    Is there any way to check if the culprit is indeed the throttle box/assembly?
    It’s a $700 part and I would hate to buy it only to find out that it doesn’t solve my problem.

    *edit*
    One more thing that just came to my mind as I was posting this…
    One day I pushed the starter button to fire her up and nothing happened - at first - after about 5 seconds or so, while I was still wondering why it hadn’t cranked (and not pushing any buttons nor even touching the throttle lever at that moment) all of a sudden she cranked and the boat started.
  • JmoskiJmoski Posts: 501 Crazy Baller
    edited August 28
    Sure sounds like the same issue, I had that delayed start long after I pushed the start button behavior as well, many Nautiques that are DBW are hitting this, lots of wakeboard boats on planet Nautique are reporting it as well.

    If you occasionally hear the fuel pump kick, but it doesn’t crank - that’s the boat thinking it’s in gear. If you had a safety lanyard issue, it would do the opposite: crank but not start.

    One other note for the meantime until u swap it out. Once it starts, if you are out skiing, don’t shut it off until your back at the dock.

    Unless you are not the original owner this should be replaced under warranty.
    DavidN
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