Binding compatibility

I have a (New) 2019 syndicate alpha blank. I was looking at putting a radar ARTP vector on for my back foot does anyone know if the holes are compatible. Also what fin do we all recommend for the Alpha?
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Comments

  • BroussardBroussard Posts: 814 Mega Baller
    The Radar ARTPs using the feather frame will not work. You will need to use a Radar RTP with an aluminum plate or a RTP from another manufacturer.
    Andre Broussard | Action Water Sports | WakeHouse | SkiBennetts |
    Zstrehlow21
  • wettek69wettek69 Posts: 181 Baller
    edited July 11
    It would be nice to have a standard rear binding pattern so all brands fitted all skis.
    Zstrehlow21
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 5,213 Mega Baller
    @wettek69 that would be - but the best solution is to just use the Wileys universal plate, or get a rear G10 plate from say MOB.
  • aupatkingaupatking Posts: 1,809 Mega Baller
    edited July 11
    Or…. Drill a couple holes in that feather frame. It works just fine.
    HO and Radar use the same hole pattern on their skis but the feather frame (plastic base) is different. It is pretty annoying, that the “Feather Frame” has its own odd pattern. My ski partner has to drill them for even his Radar skis. They hold up just fine
    skialexGloersenZstrehlow21
  • mike_mapplemike_mapple Posts: 282 Water Ski Industry Professional
    You can also get the BOA ARTP which comes either as feather frame, or Universal aluminum.

    Mike Mapple | Perfski.com | [email protected] | 407-859-75444
    Zstrehlow21aupatkingJordan
  • RAWSkiRAWSki Posts: 1,005 Mega Baller
    i was told the feather frames wouldnt work on goode skis but they do or will --- like mentioned drill out one hole in the rear of the feather frame or put two extra inserts in the ski to match the radar pattern both ways are easy, the bindings do hold up better than i expected and they make the ski-binding set-upd crazy light.
  • vtmechengvtmecheng Posts: 971 Crazy Baller
    The aluminum frame Radar fits my HO but I had to file the front slots a touch because the screws were binding up a bit. I could get it to work without filing but it was annoying.
  • wettek69wettek69 Posts: 181 Baller
    @aupatking

    Agreed mate, it's very doable, but in this day and age you shouldn't have to drill holes in a new binding to make it fit.
    ALPJr
  • BroussardBroussard Posts: 814 Mega Baller
    edited July 12
    @wettek69 The Feather Frame system is used on Radar's lower end bindings meant to be used on their skis. People typically purchase a "package" meaning they buy both the ski and bindings together.

    All of Radar's higher end bindings come on aluminum plates which are compatible with most skis.
    Andre Broussard | Action Water Sports | WakeHouse | SkiBennetts |
  • SlalomSteveSlalomSteve Posts: 198 Baller
    edited July 12
    I also have a binding compatibility question, different ski but figured I should post here rather than make a new thread:

    I have a used Denali C85 arriving later this week. I currently use a T-Factor front binding and for the rear, the Radar HRTP on the feather frame. My understanding is that the feather frame will not line-up correctly with the Denali inserts? If so, what about the Radar Sequence Plate? Can I mount the T-Factor on that? What about the feather frame?

    Or any other ideas how I can keep using these bindings on my new ski? I expect I will either stay on the T-Factor long term or possibly switch to the new Radar Vapor boot as some point. And I expect to stay with the HRTP.

    I know I could get the HRTP on an aluminum plate, but they only offer that in the BOA version, and I kick in to the HRTP so I replace the laces of the HRTP with bungee cords (from a T-Factor) so it can stretch as I kick in, and I really like that setup. So the BOA wouldn't work :/

    @mmosley899 - you got any tricks up your sleeve?
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 5,213 Mega Baller
    I think you can just order the Radar aluminum rear plate from Perf Ski and put your HRTP onto that. @brooks might be able to tell you if the plate is correct.
    Zstrehlow21
  • wettek69wettek69 Posts: 181 Baller
    edited July 12
    @Broussard

    I am well aware of that.
    I was merely commenting that standardisation is becoming expected these days. How many posts do you read where people are buying x or y binding to put on w or z ski?
    As far as I am concerned, if manufacturers sell bindings separately, in this era they should fit any ski. To me, it would mean they would potentially sell more bindings, if Joe/Jane Average can buy the ski they want, and put whatever brand binding (high or low end) on it, without having to modify it.
    Purely my opinion.
    MDB1056
  • aupatkingaupatking Posts: 1,809 Mega Baller
    So, this is what I was told. By no means, take it as gospel. The Feather Frame was created to be an economical choice for very light people like small women and children. I was told that when Herb found out full size people (I understand that as men) were using it, he was a bit astonished and expected the plates to fail. Now, if any of that is true…. I don’t know, but I do find it a bit hard to believe since they sure do make them that fit size 12 feet. The only Radar bindings I own, that I occasionally use, I bought with the aluminum plate.
    @SlalomSteve keep using that HRT, just drill you a couple holes for the rear screws
  • SlalomSteveSlalomSteve Posts: 198 Baller
    @aupatking Yeah I feel like Radar wouldn't keep selling them if they though they were a liability. That said, I wouldn't want one on my front boot, but the rear doesn't bother me.

    The ski gets in tomorrow so I'll see how it all lines up. It looks like just drilling the HRT is the way to go.
  • BroussardBroussard Posts: 814 Mega Baller
    @wettek69 Like @aupatking mentioned the Feather Frame was meant to be a low cost lightweight option for package skis. These are used by recreational skiers who just want to go out and have fun on the lake.

    The feather frame is obviously not as strong as an aluminum plate and is shorter than a standard plate. Lengthening the plate would decrease the structural integrity of the plate. They Feather Frame works well when used as intended - as a low price package option for recreational skiers.

    Their high end bindings come on universal aluminum plates which allow you to put X binding on Z ski.
    Andre Broussard | Action Water Sports | WakeHouse | SkiBennetts |
    Dragoaupatking
  • SlalomSteveSlalomSteve Posts: 198 Baller
    Well I'd buy the lace version of the HRTP on aluminum if it was offered on aluminum :/
  • BroussardBroussard Posts: 814 Mega Baller
    @SlalomSteve They used to make one but it was not very popular. You might be able to find a shop somewhere that still has one kicking around.

    https://www.wakehouse.com/products/radar-hybrid-rear-toe-aluminum-frame-hrt-black.html
    Andre Broussard | Action Water Sports | WakeHouse | SkiBennetts |
    SlalomSteve
  • MDB1056MDB1056 Posts: 1,057 Crazy Baller
    edited July 13
    @SlalomSteve - inquire at Wileys? Darren would know or possibly have old..
  • wettek69wettek69 Posts: 181 Baller
    edited July 14
    @Broussard
    Well, they certainly were not marketed that way or advertised as such. When I bought a Radar Senate years ago my local ski shop was extolling the virtues of the feather frame to me, and I am 6'1" and 220. Never have I seen anything in the literature, brochures, or on the Radar web site, saying "for women, kids, and people under xx lbs. Not for big skiers"
    I know the difference in the binding levels, having used Profiles, Wileys, Animals etc, all on plates. All I am saying is that in my opinion, for a relatively small market like waterskiing, bindings should be interchangeable, without having to break out the drill.
    gsm_peterMDB1056
  • SlalomSteveSlalomSteve Posts: 198 Baller
    edited July 14
    Alright I got the C85 in and indeed the inserts don't line up left-and-right with the Radar feather frame. I was planning to just drill new holes in the feather frame... but a bigger issue is at hand - the plate doesn't reach back far enough either way:


    So new questions:
    1. If a get the BOA HRT on the aluminum frame, would the frame really extend that much farther? From images it looks kinda similar in length to the feather. I could honestly even see moving my back binding up one more hole (which would put it even farther away), but I'm also already maxed out on the front holes.

    2. If I find and get one of the earlier HRT models on the aluminum frame, is the overall quality any lower being the earlier model, or were recent updates just cosmetic? @Broussard

    3. I suppose I could add new inserts to the ski, seems on one hand the most straight-forward solution, no need for new bindings or anything... but I really don't trust myself to not mess that up. Anyone around Chicago and/or Indianapolis confident adding inserts? 12-pack of craft beer or a bottle of whiskey on me lol.
  • skialexskialex Posts: 1,379 Mega Baller
    Aluminum plate fits… no issue whatsoever, you can also cut the rear piece of an old aluminum plate, long enough to overlap the rear of the feather frame. Countersunks through both plate tightened with nuts and voila, you have the long plate you want without buying a new HRT. Personally I would like any HRT on aluminum plate, old or new over the feather frame one.
    The above mod also makes the whole binding more durable.
  • SlalomSteveSlalomSteve Posts: 198 Baller
    @skialex Nice idea! I'm wondering though, wouldn't that create a weird gap between the ski and the boot? If I put the aluminum piece under the feather frame, then the feather frame is at an angle, and if I put the aluminum over the feather, then the aluminum is at an angle. Here's pics:


    My proposed solution: what if I just use the entire aluminum plate and mount the feather frame on top of it (using the countersunk + nuts strategy)? Seems to me like that would work, and the holes line up. It would add a tiny bit of height to the back boot but I think that's fine. Here's a pic (I haven't ripped the footbed off the old plate yet, which is why the HRT is "floating" but obviously I would take that off):
  • ColeGiacopuzziColeGiacopuzzi Posts: 565 Open or Level 9 Skier
    edited July 15
    .
    SlalomSteve
  • skialexskialex Posts: 1,379 Mega Baller
    @SlalomSteve yes… but you can s bend the aluminum piece using a vice, pliers, hammers, whatever it takes and put aluminum over the plastic which also reinforces the plate. Have done this a couple of times, but don’t have pictures to show you. It’s doable.
  • DavidNDavidN Posts: 613 Crazy Baller
    Don’t cheap out now!
    Get the HRT on aluminum plate and do a proper setup!
    Nice thing about that plate - you can pivot the boot on the plate to your liking.


    RazorRoss3ALPJr
  • vtmechengvtmecheng Posts: 971 Crazy Baller
    Rigging up something may work but binding failures are at best painful, at worst you get really injured. In my opinion, not worth the risk.
    RazorRoss3
  • wettek69wettek69 Posts: 181 Baller
    edited July 16
    @skialex
    Sorry mate, sounds like an injury waiting to happen.
    @SlalomSteve
    Just spend the money and buy what you need on a standard plate. No mucking around and MUCH less chance of a dodgy job ending your skiing when it fails and you hurt yourself

    Old saying:
    "Pay lots, cry once.
    Pay little, cry lots."
    vtmechengRazorRoss3
  • OldboyIIOldboyII Posts: 732 Crazy Baller
    edited July 16
    Del )
    Unregistered
  • kckc Posts: 352 Crazy Baller
    I have a pair of front and back Radar aluminum plates I’d part with. I mounted my Vapors on the Sequence plate.
  • RAWSkiRAWSki Posts: 1,005 Mega Baller
    So this is the key IF the ski maker puts 4 inserts in for the back of the rear boot (like shown) the STD and LRG Feather frames fit without modifications. I know Radar and Goode use this jig. The small feather frames are too short however ---- in fact they only use 4 of the 6 front holes and require additional inserts for the back of rear.
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