Can,t find previous thread wing/foil attitude of ski

Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 2,399 ★★★★Quad Panda Award Recipient ★★★★
Hi Guy,s & Gals
Apologise cannot find thread where this was discussed.
2021 Radar Vapor Pro 67
Skiing with Short/Deep settings tried to go 8 degrees on the wing instead of 9
The turns were not as good, so I am asking if you go less angle on the wing/foil does it ride with the tip down a bit,thinking that more wing drags the tail down and creates a higher tip attitude.
School me please
Any ideas, whether to move bindings or make a tip adjustment on the fin, to regain the turns.

Looking Forward To Getting On The Water, It Has Been A Bleak Winter

Comments

  • GloersenGloersen Posts: 1,271 Mega Baller
    edited August 5
    @Stevie Boy re the wing:
    Wing Location
    Written by Kris Lapoint around 1997:

    Where you place the wing on the fin makes a big difference–no, make that a huge difference. Even on the same ski, you may position it differently than another skier would place it. It takes plenty of trial and error to find the optimum location, but it’s worth the effort. Here are some general guidelines for adjusting your wing position:

    Moving the wing toward the rear (putting the trailing edge of the wing about 0.5 in. From the rear of the fin blade) pushes the ski out in front of you in the turn and makes the ski finish the arc more quickly. This is especially good if your ski tends to finish behind you at the end of the turn.

    Moving the wing forward, to about middle of the fin blade makes the ski stay in the turn longer and helps keep it underneath you while finishing the turn.

    Moving the wing up the blade, toward the bottom of the ski, lets the ski roll up on edge easier in the pre-turn and may slow the ski slightly more than a lower placement.

    Lowering the wing placement provides more stability. The ski feels more locked in and is also harder to roll up on edge during the pre-turn.

    Wing angle is a totally separate issue. If you are using a wing, it has got to have some downward angle. The minimum is about 50 and the maximum about 120. Common knowledge says the more angle, the better the ski slows down and the more drag the ski encounters while traveling across wakes. I don’t disagree with this, but wing angle plays another important role–it also affects how the ski turns. More wing angle promotes rounded constant-radius turns, while less angle yields a turn that’s slower to start with but very hard to finish. Most skiers like the characteristics of more angle on their off-side turns, and less angle on their on-side turns.

    Like a lot of things, with fine tuning your ski you must find the best compromise. Spend a lot of time trying new locations and angles you think might not work. You may be surprised how much difference it will make.

    Schnitz:
    WING SIZE, SHAPE AND ANGLE


    Not only does the angle of the wing affect your skiing, but the shape and size also play critical roles as well. Larger wings will create more drag while smaller wings create less. Wings with thick sides (the area where the screws attach the wings to the fin) create more drag and lift.

    Years ago a company came out with a "Wedge Wing" which looked like a mini door stop that attached to your fin. Sure, it created drag but as soon as you put your ski on edge, the lower wedge created so much lift, that it had a tendency to blow out the tail of the ski. In the same manner as the wedge, thick attachment areas on wings create more lift than thinner attachment areas. Thinner attachment areas allow the fin
    to ride deeper through the turn and create less drag while accelerating.

    Wings that are thinner create less drag and allow more speed.

    Wing that have a lot of sweep back in their design are not as efficient at decelerating as wings with less sweep. The closer to 90 degrees the sweep of the wing is, the faster it will shut down.

    Increasing wing angle accomplishes many things. It creates more drag at all times. It decreases the amount of glide you will get on the approach to the gates. It increases the amount of angle you will get in the course from buoy to buoy. These can all be better or worse for your
    skiing.

    Fluid Motion (a bit esoteric):

    The Wing
    I like to view the wing as a miniature version of the foil on an air chair. The wing is also much like a trim tab/stabilizer on a boat. It’s also important to understand what the wing does for you in the course so you can use your technique to take advantage. If the skier can assume a “sitting chair” position coming off the 2nd wake, the wing is activated to lift or jet the ski out of the water and reduce the wetted surface. The ski can hop ahead having established speed and direction to gain a significant amount of space in the course. This hop is starts to be most effective at 32 off or better, amplified by compressing into the ski and an aggressive pull. Another benefit of the wing is tip “dump” into the ball. The wing seems to create a rapid tip engagement or dump just at the ball, which is the ideal position for it.
    Overall the wing induces drag, which is a penalty in creation of speed. For shorter lines 32 off or better, the acceleration phase is short and intense. At the longer lines, the amount of time spent pulling is longer and the speed builds less abruptly. Therefore the wing is spending more time working against the ski by scrubbing speed of acceleration, than assisting the skier by dumping speed before the ball. Coaches will often recommend removal of the wing for long line skiers.
    A wing set at a greater “trim” angle sets the tail of the ski lower while riding straight, adds tip pressure into the turn and finishes the turn with the tail lower and tip higher.
    With respect to symmetry, a greater wing angle acts much like moving the fin forward or increasing FDT and will reduce width going into the on-side turn. A greater wing angle also amplifies the hop at the 2nd wake if the skier can work but increases the amount speed scrubbed off the ski increasing line load overall.
    A larger wing puts more metal into the water and increases the stabilizing effect. The larger wing boosts drag as well, without going to a steeper angle. It seems that if you can really compress and are not limited in side-side speed, it is possible to use a steep wing angle (>9 Degrees). Most pro skiers will run 7-9 degrees, and the ski manufacturer will be able to suggest settings.
    The wing does not need to be set with the same accuracy as the fin with +/- 0.5 degrees usually good enough. If the wing is set with too much angle, acceleration cannot be accomplished within the required time window. The ski tip could finish the turn too high and throw off your symmetry requiring the FDT to be reduced further increasing drag. With too much drag overall, you might yourself having to work very hard to obtain width, and keep the ski on-line. If the wing angle is too shallow, there is a feeling of speed into the ball despite being in good position and the generation of slack delays at the shorter line lengths.
    I’ve seen several skiers run without a wing in the North, because the high viscosity water is more difficult to achieve the acceleration and width to even reach the buoy line. Acceleration tends to Skiing all other characteristics, so it all depends on how quick the ski is side-side in determining whether a wing can be used. Also moving the fin backward or reducing FDT, engages the wing more. In correcting on-side slack, I’ve moved my fin back to build space, and at the same time engage more wing, without changing the setting from the 9 degrees that I run. The resistance of the ski or load on the rope when riding behind the boat is a good indicator if you can sense it.
    Too much wing or fin too far back, and the ski will be tiring to ride. With too little wing and/or the fin forward it will feel like you are on ball bearings. There has to be just the right amount of resistance.





    skialexAlberto Soares
  • skialexskialex Posts: 1,379 Mega Baller
    edited August 5
    @Stevie Boy reducing the wing angle raises the tip and vice versa.
    To compensate for that move, you have to add some leading edge. Better add some length so to keep everything else constant. Maybe something like 2-3 thousand…
  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 2,399 ★★★★Quad Panda Award Recipient ★★★★
    Thankyou for your responses, appreciated

    Looking Forward To Getting On The Water, It Has Been A Bleak Winter

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