2022 Men 3 Slalom Nationals Tournament Performance | Deja Vue 1985

swbcaswbca Posts: 867 Crazy Baller
edited August 13 in News & Other Stuff
With all the improvements in skis, training and boats, I was surprised watching Men 3 Slalom on Sunday that the top performances were nearly an exact match to the 1985 Nationals in De Quoin Illinois. I am pretty sure M3 was for age 35-44 in both tournaments. The Pro Skiers have taken the slalom event to entirely new heights and the 50+ ages have advanced considerably over the last 35 years. Site Conditions looked similar, except there was some breeze on Sunday but with no wind affect on the water.


Any speculation on why the performances weren't better for this event after 37 years ?

EDIT CORRECTION: There were actually 5 Skiers who completed 35off in '85. I forgot about David Benzel who didn't get to 38off because he couldn't catch the slack after the exit gate at 35off.
Home of the world's first submersible slalom course.
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Comments

  • RednucleusRednucleus Posts: 864 Mega Baller
    Maybe because they are getting to the superhuman rope lengths that only the top elite humans can handle? (this from a 15 off skier)
    swbca
  • dbutcherdbutcher Posts: 570 Crazy Baller
    It appears there were only 19 M3 slalom skiers at the 2022 Nationals. Perhaps some (or many) M3 skiers stayed home this year. This is, of course, pure speculation on my part.
    swbca
  • swbcaswbca Posts: 867 Crazy Baller
    @dbutcher about 60 skiers in 1985. There was an advanced women skier at the Nationals with your last name. Do you know her :)
    Home of the world's first submersible slalom course.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 32,819 Administrator
    not logically comparable. completely different size fields. completely different size field of people just trying to qualify for Nationals. hand driven boats. sure path boat paths versus not even video review. completely different conditions.

    My understanding is the conditions in Kansas this year were decent but challenging. The men's four scores were pretty low.

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  • swbcaswbca Posts: 867 Crazy Baller
    @Horton just because you know the answer to a question, doesn't always have to mean it shouldn't have been asked. Thanks for confirming @dbutcher 's response.
    Home of the world's first submersible slalom course.
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 3,913 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Not sure about 1985, but in 2022 there was a stiff cross wind out of the south on Sunday with temps above 100. Skiing was challenging. On Monday, the wind shifted to out of the north and temps dropped to the 70’s. M3 slalomed Sunday; I (M7) slalomed Monday.
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,395
    Scores were fairly low for a lot of people. There's people in M4 that are capable of running deep 39 and who went down at 35. So you can't compare year vs year in that way.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • jhughesjhughes Posts: 1,232 Mega Baller
    I wonder if what was a fairly large and deep M3 group simply grew up and are now in M4 which had twice as many skiers.
  • dbutcherdbutcher Posts: 570 Crazy Baller
    @swbca Sent you a private message.
  • BbrandauBbrandau Posts: 47 Baller
    Should I take offense that I was part of this underperforming Mens 3 group? LOL ...

    For me personally, the water skied great and got a score that is around what I should have expected. I think it's a participation problem ... A very low percent of the skiers in the top 25 of the USA ranking list showed up. That said, I get it ... This is probably the busiest life stage for most skiers with families and jobs. Taking the time to get to a site like Kansas that skis great but is logistically harder to get to could have been the breaking point. I know I wouldn't have gone if I wasn't able to get a direct flight.
    PatMmcskier41
  • dave2balldave2ball Posts: 1,126 Crazy Baller
    I have to agree with B Butterfield. I skied Thursday around 9AM there was a small head/tail wind but that caused a very challenging glare going back towards the starting dock. So much that I could not really see the 55’s or entrance gates. They were a black blurb. That was huge for your 4th pass generally the money pass needed to challenge for the lead.
    Others then glare the lake skied great. No surprises.
  • scuppersscuppers Posts: 599 Crazy Baller
    Just maybe the best skiers didn't feel like taking safe sport training.

    Chuck Link, Deland Florida

    ForrestGumpjayskieyepeeler
  • MarkTimmMarkTimm Posts: 164 Baller
    The Men 5 skied well today, it took a full pass @ -38 to make the podium. It was very cool seeing names I recognize from Ball of Spray. @Bruce_Butterfield and @liquid d.

    Mark Timm

    swbcaAndrerobmollysilverlake
  • DragoDrago Posts: 1,823 Mega Baller
    I would say it's the Kansas low octane fuel
    SR SL Judge & Driver (“a driver who is super late on the wheel and is out of sync”)
    Dirtjayski
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 3,913 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @Drago I don’t know about the octane they used, but regular was under $3.50 a gallon at the pump. A buck more a gallon when I got home to NY.
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
  • MISkierMISkier Posts: 3,525 Mega Baller
    edited August 12
    Where 1985 falls short of 2022:
    • 1985 had 250HP to 275HP engines and hand drive. You can bet skiers were pulling those boats down and the timings were generous.
    • 2022 has 400+HP engines and Zero Off. Any 1985 skier transported to today would think it it is two freight trains with a JATO rocket strapped to the stern.
    On the reverse:
    • 1985 had 1985 technology skis/equipment and understanding of the physics of the sport
    • 2022 has benefited from significant improvements on those.
    Boat path is potentially far tighter today than back then.

    The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears.

    mcskier41Bhahn
  • HortonHorton Posts: 32,819 Administrator
    @MISkier I can run mid 38 on an old EP Stiletto behind a current boat with a legit path and time. Gimmie a weak boat and a happy boat path .... I wonder.

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  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 3,913 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @jhughes M4? That M3 group is in M6 (22 skiers, [email protected] won), M7 (38 skiers, [email protected] won) and M8 (12 skiers, [email protected] won). That’s 72 skiers, many of whom I guess skied M3 at Nationals in 1985.
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
    mmosley899StefanAndre
  • JackQJackQ Posts: 525 Open or Level 9 Skier
    My 1st Nationals was at De Quoin, not sure if it was 1985. I would argue that skiing then (dual boats, had to pull out through the wakes of the boat leaving the the course), behind a 1985 MC ( I owned one), with blinding spray at 35, inconsistent driving, and the skis of that time; was more challenging than today.

    However, My wife skied on Sunday at the Nationals and I skied on Monday, and there was glare in the morning and wind in the afternoon that made in a bit challenging. I can not complain as I was only off a few buoys from my season best score, but other were not as fortunate.
    lpskierISP6ballMISkier
  • HortonHorton Posts: 32,819 Administrator
    I tricked 4360 at the 1985 Nationals and placed 3rd.

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  • dave2balldave2ball Posts: 1,126 Crazy Baller
    @D3dude not if you run the forum.
    HortonJody_Sealhackermcskier41
  • JASJAS Posts: 334 Crazy Baller
    @horton makes me think that i have wasted a bunch of money on new skis over the years, but sure has been fun!
    Horton
  • BoozeBooze Posts: 481 Crazy Baller
    edited August 13
    I think @MarkTimm just dissed me.
    richfoster
  • JeffSurdejJeffSurdej Posts: 731 Open or Level 9 Skier
    @swbca great observation and something that has always perplexed me. Go look at scorebooks in late 90’s and early 2,000. All events all divisions the scores are so far down from back then especially trick and jump. yet the pros have greatly advanced. I know numbers are way down but you would almost think only the best would still be around. Really makes you wonder.
    Midwest Justin Bieber Fan Club President
    swbcaForrestGump
  • swbcaswbca Posts: 867 Crazy Baller
    edited August 14
    @MISkier
    Good Theory, and its the lakeshore property values chasing away the slalom courses. We paid $40,000 for a modest home on a premium suburban lake near Minneapolis in 1974. We remodeled along the way and sold it in 1993 with slalom course removed. It has since doubled and most recently sold for 1.2 million.

    When a skier sells his home, his course is usually gone forever. Or if multiple families maintained the course, when the last family sells, the course is gone forever.

    Many of the skiers who remain active in Minnesota still own homes on Lakes, or are long term ski partners with those home owners. The skiers and their slalom courses have been fixtures on their lakes for decades. When they age out of their homes, and if their kids can't afford their parents homes, the slalom courses are gone.

    A parallel to this situation. In Minnesota, skiers used to bring home National Medals in Boys, Men1,2,3 along with a smaller number of women skiers. Now the they place in M5 to M7 along with 1 or 2 senior type women in the mix as well.
    Home of the world's first submersible slalom course.
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