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Goode would not sell me two different skies at the same time.

Bud ManBud Man Posts: 254
edited April 2011 in Skis Fins Bindings
I called Goode about buying a Nano and a 9960 at the same time so that I could get a set by set comparison. They said no. They said for people that want more buoys, should buy the Nano and people that do not want more buoys go with the 9960. Yes, that is what they told me. They said I would have to buy just one ski and if I did not like it then they would work with me over the phone for a while to adjust things to make it perform right for me. I was also told that the Nano was constructed of all carbon nano tubes. I ran that by a friend that owns a manufacturing company, and he agreed with what I posted a while back, which was that carbon nano tubes are extremely expensive to produce and are expensive to buy and it would be unlikely that there is an amount in the new ski, at that price, to make a significant difference in its performance. He gave an example that you could put an insignificant amount of honey in a thousand gallons of dough and call the end product honey bread, even if no one could see or taste a difference in that so called honey bread and the regular bread.

Please do not think I am talking negative about the company, I just think it would be good for the consumer to know what they are getting based on the marketing and advertising a product is being sold under. Has anyone seen in writing what percent carbon nano tubes are used in the new Nano ski?

I’ll ask here:
Dave, if the 9960 has 100% flat carbon, then please tell us if there is any flat carbon in the Nano, and if yes, what percent of the carbon in the Nano is flat carbon and what percent is carbon nano tubes? I don’t think this could be considered disclosing trade secrets.

And as for the one ski only policy: I love my Strada, so should I not try any more skis? What if I order a 9960 and like it better than the Strada, is that where I should stop trying skis? I like inserts and would rather have inserts, so what if I try and like the Nano first, should I never try the 9960 with inserts? It might ski just as well for me and I would have the inserts that I like.

Does anyone else like to try two different skis set by set?
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Comments

  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 4,153 Mega Baller
    I do, sometimes we're testing like that. I built up an extra set of bindings on a plate just for that reason.
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,961 Mega Baller
    I can see where Goode wouldn't want to sell you two skis knowing that you are going to return one of them. This guarantees that they get back a used ski that they can't be sold as new.

    If I was Goode I would take the same point of trying to get you in a ski that you would help you improve and try to make sure you stick with it.

    If you called Goode and said you want to buy two skis and not have the performance guarantee/option to return one of them they would sell you both skis.
    Mark Shaffer
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,052
    Ski companies are not in business to just send multiple skis out to anyone that wants them. While they do offer the 30 day money back guarantee, you calling up wanting two skis, acknowleding you are going to send one back, fiscally does not make sense for a manufacturer of a product. A customer who calls and wants a ski to try has a better than even chance of keeping it. I'm guessing less than 20% come back. When you want two, it's a given that one is coming back and then cannot be sold as new. This taxes their production, back office, and inventory management system. If I were Goode, I would have said no also.

    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • Jim NeelyJim Neely Posts: 291 Baller
    So is Goode better off selling no ski or selling two knowing one will be returned?
    68" Vapor
  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
    This is where team riders have a big advantage over joe blow. I would love to get 2 or 3 Nanos and send back the 2 that did not perform as well as the one I keep. You could buy 2 skis with same flex numbers and odds are one will out perform the other. I have had this happen to me twice. Goode and HO. I see budmans point but he wont win this one.
    Now the other point on the Nano tubes he has a shot at. After viewing the NOVA PBS special, the ski should cost well over the listed price.
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 2,117
    Bud,

    Just order the Nano with the 3 VW's and you will have what many consider the best ski on the Planet. I tried the Strada, and while it is a great ski, in no way did it compare in acceleration or turning capability to my 9900 Mid.
    Right now I plan to order the 3 VW's and experiment with them on my current Mid with both the Reg. Goode Fin and the Schnitz Speed Slot Fin. That way I'm dealing with changes to a known quanity. I also want to hear OB's evaluation between the two Mid's. I trust his evaluation will be accurate and unbiased..........ED
    Special Thanks to Performance Ski and Surf and the Denali Adam's !!!
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,052
    Jim, Goode is better off selling no ski to Bud, because they have people falling all over themselves to buy skis. So instead of sending two to Bud with an 20% chance that one comes back and a 100% chance that the other comes back, they can sell two skis to two other people with a 20% chance that both come back. That's a no brainer.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • bxroadsbxroads Posts: 219
    Maybe I read to fast but I didn't see anything that insinuated that Bud Man was going to return a ski.
  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
    edited April 2011
    If I were all the other ski companies, I would just get out of the business now. There will never be anything better then the Nano. I cant wait to try one. Next thing you know, Ski Dawg will be back on the crack.
    JTH better be getting a few more bucks for add space.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 1,770 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    If you agree to sign off on not attempting to return either ski, then they should sell you the skis.

    If you expect to try them both, then send back the one you don't like forget it. I can't imagine any company would do that. As mentioned above they would basically be guaranteed a used ski that is devalued.

  • ralral Posts: 1,708 Mega Baller
    Bud,

    there are several kinds of nanotubes with significant price differences between them.

    There is even a "special offer" in one on-line vendor for Industrial Grade Carbon Nanotubes for the IGMWNTs 90wt% 50-80nm variety : 5kgs for $500 (+shipping). And some are US$ 250 per gram. My guess is that Goode use the former not the latter. Guess they can put a good 250 grams without losing too much money.

    Saying it is not likely they use nanotubes is like saying it is not likely there are diamond drill bits out there because the Hope diamond is valued at $250,000,000...

    Goode is better off sending one ski and not two for a side by side comparison. If not, where does it stop? I could ask also 3-4 Amp settings for each as well... Their "demo" business model is simple: They are pretty sure they will send you a ski you will like, so it is not probable that you will return it. They are not in the business of selling you the best ski they can make for you. They would do that for their team skiers, I am sure, but not for all customers. They might even do that for a skier that buys every year from them (know several). But not for everyone.

    If you really want to try them side by side, you can trick the system easily: ask a ski buddy to order one for you. If you want to test them but only if Goode does "the right thing for you", then the problem is more complex.


    Rodrigo Andai
  • Jim NeelyJim Neely Posts: 291 Baller
    The returned ski may be devalued but I'm sure they can still sell it for what it cost to manufacture it. Full profit on one ski would be better than no profit.
    68" Vapor
  • BulldogBulldog Posts: 1,010 Crazy Baller
    Get your friend / wife / neighbour / ski partner to order the other one……. Just saying wink, wink
    Mike Loeffler - "Someone somewhere is having a real problem today...My bad skiing is NOT one of them"
  • Bud ManBud Man Posts: 254
    There are usually many right was to do things, and there is no doubt that Goode’s policy is one of the right way to run a business.

    I bought a Vortex from Schnitz back when he was making skis because he was sending a demo around for people to try. When it got to me, I rode it and liked it better than the other ski I owned that he made before and ordered one. So I ended up on a couple his skis for several years.

    Any company could have a few demo skis to send around for people to try before they buy. These skis could still be sold during the season at any time for a slight discount but still plenty of profit.

    Look at all the food you can taste at Sam’s Club to decide if you want to buy it. Yes that uses a little profit, but they probably sell more because of it. It is all how one chooses to run their business.

    I owned my own successful business and retired at age 43 because I felt that I had supported Uncle Sam with enough money. I must have done something right as far as customer service.

    I’m sure Goode will do fine without sending two skis out at once. I clearly saw the point of Goode's policy before I made the first post, but I also saw other points as well. Again, there are usually many right was to do things.


    Also, I hope they will tell us the percent of carbon nano tubes in the Nano.
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,961 Mega Baller
    Bud,

    Just so you know I didn't have a problem with your intentions. It sounds like you were up front with Goode about what you wanted to do which I appreciate. It would have been easy enough to do two different transactions and be able to return whichever ski you didn't want (or even both).

    It would be nice if there were a bunch of demo skis floating around to try. I would love to try a Goode but I can't see shelling out the cash and don't want to be disingenuous on my interest in buying one. At 230lbs I rarely find a friend with a ski I can try so I usually need to make a commitment before I can get on a new stick. I think it is difficult for a company to have enough skis to send around for people to try in different sizes. Even more so if they are having time filling demand (I don't know this is the case at Goode).

    If you do wind up trying one please let us know what you think.
    Mark Shaffer
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,052
    Chef, considering that there were only 3 of the Nano's in existence 3 weeks ago, I suspect that you are absolutely correct on numbers of units available.

    Whether anyone likes it or not, Goode(and most ski mfr's) business model is not to be sending demo skis everywhere. It's a little different when you're sending a $2k stick out vs a plate full of sausage on a stick. Same as with a car. Unless you have a really good relationship with a car dealer, they're not going to let you take two cars home to try out.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,142 Mega Baller
    I wanted Goode to send me a 220 and 240 Amp ski years ago and I told them I would keep one and pay the demo fee on the one I returned. They still didn't do it, even with the demo fee they are willing to accept for one ski tried and returned. That seemed a little discriminatory to me, but maybe my logic is messed up.
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,052
    edited April 2011
    I'm curious about your logic behind discriminatory? How so? Some of you guys seem to think the demo fee is a rental fee. It's not, it's only a way to put some skin in the game for a prospective customer and weed out people who aren't serious.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • Bud ManBud Man Posts: 254
    @ShaneH
    Just for the fun of posting while I’m not skiing:
    I have only car shopped here in the center of SC, but I believe all dealers that I have been to and heard about encourage potential customers to drive cars before they buy them, even home over night, and sometimes for a few days. As you say, there is a lot of difference between a piece of sausage and a $2k stick, but a car is also very different. Easily 30, 40 or 50+K.

    Is this the only area where dealers encourage potential customers to drive home cars before they buy or do any of you experience that as well?

    But like I said before, there are many right ways to run businesses.
  • ralral Posts: 1,708 Mega Baller
    If GM was doing it, this explains several shareholder pains...

    Just joking, please reply with jokes and teases, not with a detailed explanation on Toyota doing the same thing (wait, Toyota? The makers of the "unstoppable" cars?)
    Rodrigo Andai
  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
    H2oz should sell Goode skis. Awesome demo program.
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,052
    Bud, while it's common practice to let a buyer take home a car overnight or for a few days(and is comparable to Goode's try and buy program on a ski), no dealer is going to let you take TWO cars home.

    Even H2OZ isn't going to send you two skis in their Demo program. You pay a fee and you get ONE ski. If you return it, you pay another fee and you can get another ski.

    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,142 Mega Baller
    ShaneH: If Goode is willing to send you a demo ski for the demo fee, why wouldn't they accept the demo fee for me? Is it because I said I would BUY one of the two? What if I ordered 2 separate demo skis and paid shipping on each? I guess I could use the wink wink approach and have my friend order a demo on one and me the other, but I am an honest person, and feel that is not how I like to do business. I told them I would BUY one ski, maybe they just didn't trust me. I think I even told them they could send me a used ski to try. So as a result, I bought a D3.

    Bud' post brought back my memory of dealing with Goode. I have a few other gems experienced by me and some of my friends dealing with Goode.
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,052
    Believe me, I'm not a fan of Goode's customer service in the past, but I have absolutely ZERO issue with them not sending you guys two skis on their Try and Buy program. And don't find it discriminatory in the least. You said it yourself.......they wouldn't send you two. Same as Bud. Their business model is based on one ski going out on demo and probably less than 20% coming back. Two skis increases their monetary exposure, increases their tracking and back office requirements, and increases the % chance(when you average it out over an entire run of skis) of skis coming back. Think about it. If their model is based on 20% coming back, but people want to order two and one is coming back, then the average take back is 50%, not 20%. Of which they now have to discount that take back in all likelihood to sell it.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • Bud ManBud Man Posts: 254
    @ShaneH,
    Did you happen to see the Seinfeld where Kramer test drove the car and wanted to see how it did around town running errands and then to see how long the gas would last? That was so funny.

    __________________________

    I’ve never thought about two cars at once, but I would think if I told almost any car dealer my wife and I want to drive two cars home to compare over night, and return one car in two days and buy the other, I would guess that most would say yes.

    What would all of you guess?
  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
    If you drive home 2 ford F150s, they will both drive and react the same. If you bring home 2 Nanos, same amp and flex, you will like one better then the other. That is what all the team riders get to do.
    The question I have is is, if you buy a Nano, try it and dont like it, will they send you another Nano to try?
  • Bud ManBud Man Posts: 254
    @MS,
    This is kind of weird but my wife wanted a sports utility and test drove, among other things, two Highlanders. She said they felt completely different, so I drove them and she was right, they felt very different.

    ___________________________

    As for the two skis; I like the inserts, so I was hoping the 9960 skied as well as people are boasting as the Nano.

    The folks at Goode probably did me a favor anyway. My Strada is awesome and if I fix ME and stop looking for greener grass, I should be running all lines better with the ski I already have and putting some wear on some new color loops. And the customer service at Radar is awesome as well. They seem to jump through loops to please everyone and they install inserts.
  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
    BudMan, @Bud Man
    My main point is that no 2 skis are the same. I will be on the Strada as well. 2k in lessons with Chet will take you farther then a Nano.
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,961 Mega Baller
    Bud in Mass car dealers won't let you take cars home overnight there is an insurance issue.

    MS on the H2Oz demo issue they don't send out multiple skis for you to compare either. They send you one and try to get you into a ski you like as soon as they can.
    Mark Shaffer
  • DWDW Posts: 2,025 Mega Baller
    Actually on the car side, GM offered a 60 money back guarantee a while back. You had 60 days to try a car and if not to your liking, you could return it. Hyundai offered the lost job return policy. The difficulty the ski company's face is volume, one particular ski represents a larger percentage of annual sales than many other types of products, I assume particularly sausage at Sam's given the waistline of the current average US citizen.
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