Razor Rides 5 & 7 (In the Wind)

HortonHorton Posts: 31,685 Administrator
edited April 2011 in Reviews
Photos in the wind are always kind of cool but the skiing sucks. I skied way better on Saturday. The one positive note is that the ski handled the rough water without issue. Seems like on some skis the wind means a lot more work - not true on the Razor. On side turns were not as good as last weekend but it was windier than it looks in the pics

I hate the wind.

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Comments

  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
    You call that windy? Thats glass at Old Oaks.
  • jwrjwr Posts: 337 Baller
    I was thinking the same thing. That looks better then anything I've skied in this year.
    Obrien Elite 30" 6.845, 2.510, .80 PB [email protected]
  • HortonHorton Posts: 31,685 Administrator
    There was more wind than it looks like in the photos..... and here in Bako we ski GLASS most of the time

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  • jwrjwr Posts: 337 Baller
    must be nice. If I get one glassy set all year, I'm happy. I don't even know if I would know how to ski in glassy conditions.
    Obrien Elite 30" 6.845, 2.510, .80 PB [email protected]
  • bxroadsbxroads Posts: 219
    How do you get the water so blue
  • HortonHorton Posts: 31,685 Administrator
    There is a lot for sale & dye

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  • bobunabobuna Posts: 27
    What bindings are you riding? Will it be the same for all tests?
  • HortonHorton Posts: 31,685 Administrator
    edited April 2011
    Radars (Strada/RS-1) all year unless I get a specific binding to test.

    If I ask Adam for Elite bindings one more time he will stop answering my calls so....

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  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 4,799 Mega Baller
    you've sure got plenty of ski in the water on your off-side turns, except for the one where you're blowing up!
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
  • jdarwinjdarwin Posts: 1,381 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Thanks to the folks at Trophy Lakes, I have a demo sitting at home that I hope to ride tomorrow. It is the only ski I'm interested in trying this year. I really liked the Orange Fischer and with the supposed improvements, it should be a really good ski. I'll provide some first impressions afterward.
    Joe Darwin
  • jdarwinjdarwin Posts: 1,381 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Skied two sets on the Razor tonight. It is not "faster" than my Mid but it is "quicker". The Mid is a carving ski. It moves out very smooth and makes a sweeping carve turn. The Razor is abrupt with all moves yet is very comfortable to ride. It moves out quick and turns 90 at the ball. Therefore, it feels "fast" when in essence it is a much-quicker reacting ski. The off-side turn is the best of any ski I've ever ridden. The on-side needs some help. But, the fin is far back and deep relative to what I believe it should be. This translates into the ski tracking back in to the buoy going into my on-side turn. I think moving the fin forward (Horton's suggestion) and possibly taking some depth out will improve the outbound characteristics and improve the on-side turn. I won't have a chance to ski it again until Sunday but I look forward to tuning the ski for my particular needs.

    I can feel a difference from the Orange Fischer. It's more stable and doesn't bite as hard as the Fischer did. It's not a Goode 9200/9500 either as some has suggested. First of all, the Goodes binding placement was 30-30.25". The Razor is 29.5" which suggests a significant rocker difference from the Goode models it has been compared to. Both Goodes would bite at the completion of the turn. The Razor carries thru the apex much better than either of those albeit with more angle. Considering that most high end skis are in the $1300-1900 range, the Razor is competitively priced unlike the Fischer when it first arrived on the scene.
    Joe Darwin
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,902 Mega Baller
    Looking forward to your further impressions, Mr. Darwin.

    I skied the Razor again tonight and while I believe the ski is fast (coming off my D3), I agree w/the quick analogy. I would say it's the most immediately responsive ski I have ridden, yet has a larger available platform than the Fischer, which I felt was too position sensitive.

    I'm having a riot on the onside. On the offside, the Razor's quickness is beating my body mass through the turn and I end up with a little rear foot bias before the tip drops and I blast across the wake. While I like the blast, I'm losing a little time while the tip comes up, then down.

    After realizing this I found if I drop my hips in quicker and try to move with the ski on the offside turn, it seems the wake didn't exist because I am already at width on the onside.

    I'm less inclined to change the ski to fit me in the short term, and more inclined to go w/the ski and reap the benefits. Time will tell, but no ski adjustments for now.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • HortonHorton Posts: 31,685 Administrator
    I fudged my fin settings and went back out in the wind tonight.... Do not know if I will be counting this ride. Not fair for Razor, not fair for me and had to suck for the boat crew

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  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 4,799 Mega Baller
    some sets can truly be a waste of gas
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
  • HortonHorton Posts: 31,685 Administrator
    I did manage to increase the size of the holes in each hand

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  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    Having been on my Razor since last fall, I love hearing everyone's thoughts. I felt the ski was faster and more stable than the Fisher I was on -- almost slippery fast. Two observations about "on" and "off" sides. Offside is magic, but you need to keep your feet (and the ski) moving around the arc. If you do this, you will find that it is accelerating before you even get back to the buoy line. 6balls, keep the tip engaged in your pre-turn and keep your mass still there and let the ski swing around you and come back under the line.

    On side turns are highly "user adjustable". To make them smooth and fast, make sure you are swinging the ski out onto the inside edge when you edge change. You have to get from one edge to the other, or you will ride flat, then do a very sharp onside turn. Now, when you are in trouble, it is nice that you can basically slingshot the turn and find yourself in perfect ski position headed to the next ball early after coming into the onside late! But save that for only when you need it!
    Jim Ross
  • Volker EngelhardtVolker Engelhardt Posts: 19 Baller
    guys, pleasure to read your commentsimage
  • Volker EngelhardtVolker Engelhardt Posts: 19 Baller
    and thanks to John for the great pics
  • jdarwinjdarwin Posts: 1,381 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Changed some settings on the Razor yesterday. 6.885/ 2.473 / .720 (needle) DFT. Not much improvement to the on-side but no negatives regarding off-side. My ski partner put his Fischer numbers on the ski and said it made it symetrical both sides. Interesting. I may try that next and post the settings if I feel they work. I looked back at some e-mails from Matt @ Trophy and he said their "experimental" numbers were 6.730 (shorter) 2.530 (shallower) and .798 flat (further forward). Also, binding position at 29.75" (1/4" forward). My head is spinning trying to get my arms around the proper fin settings. I do not believe that one setting works for all skiers and I'm still searching for the correct settings that suit my style. But after 4 sets I can honestly say it is quicker/faster than my Mid and turns the off-side MUCH better. Gotta get the on-side figured out soon!
    Joe Darwin
  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    JD, you should talk to Volker or Matteo to see what they might suggest. For my ski style I found the "stock shortline" settings that Razor recommended to be awesome on both sides of the wake, but I know this varies with ski style. My Razor skis very symmetric side to side and still allows me to "rip" the onside when I need it. Once you dial in your settings a bit more you might want to just ski some 28s and 32s focused solely on rythm. One of the problems I noticed my brother had last year when he forgot his ski and rode my Razor was that he was out to the bouy line so much earlier that he lost his movement and rythm. Instead of continuous movement, he would get wide, then sort of freeze and wait for the ball, then turn. Once you establish a more continuous rythm, that will help as well.
    Jim Ross
  • jdarwinjdarwin Posts: 1,381 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Jim - Horton and I discussed this very topic yesterday. Perhaps the problem is "before" the buoy, not after it. I'm simply trying to find something "comfortable" and may, as you suggest, go back to stock and just ride it. But what's the fun in that:)?
    Joe Darwin
  • HortonHorton Posts: 31,685 Administrator
    My next move is back to stock.

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  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    I do think it is before. I noted that sometimes when I first got the ski I'd get out there early and then sort of quit moving and just stand on the ski and wait for the ball. Then I'd slam into the turn and take off again. I found the key for me was to focus on continuous movement of the ski through the arc prior to the ball. If I do that the ski literally finishes the turn on it's own with the appropriate amount of angle. The concept of continous movement has been an important one in my improvement the last couple of years, and it really seems to make a difference on the Razor because it makes it possible to ski without effort.
    Jim Ross
  • jdarwinjdarwin Posts: 1,381 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Jim - I would have to agree. I've had a few really nice on-side turns and now that I think back, it was when I concentrated on moving the ski out w/ proper handle control and a nice counter (remaining still). It made a nice easy turn and moved out of the buoy w/ little effort. Of course, I tend to want to rush things and that's when I get into trouble on the Razor. Horton may be on the right track by going back to stock and just skiing on it. My first instinct is to try and "tune" the ski - I'll try and "tune" my skiing for a change!
    Joe Darwin
  • Volker EngelhardtVolker Engelhardt Posts: 19 Baller
    Matteo skies 41off whith the RAZOR short line settings. You can try 2mm further back with th efront binding though. He does not rush the end of the turns (what we all do is turning the shoulders when we grab the handle, doing this the leading shoulder points back instead into the direction we want to travel), he stays countered at end of turn, and has a fluid transition into the pull with no wheely. If you still wheely a bit at end of turn, move leading shoulder 3 inch into direction you travel
  • jdarwinjdarwin Posts: 1,381 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited May 2011
    Volker - thanks for the insight. For kicks, I'm going to ride it tonight w/ stock Fischer numbers. Then, it's back to stock Razor numbers and just work on me for a change.
    Joe Darwin
  • jdarwinjdarwin Posts: 1,381 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited May 2011
    Tried Erb's old Fischer numbers (from the ski test in 2007). Ski felt symmetrical on both sides. The on-side was MUCH better. The off-side was not as radical. 6.875 tips / 2.453 / .650 needle. Bindings still 29.5 and wing 8 deg. I may add a bit more tip to assist with the carve on the off-side but the ski felt much better overall. The thin fin (.085) can't be run too deep due to its flex. The fin is the same as the Fischer and those numbers were all from 2.449 to 2.458 depth. I think I found a good "starting point" to fine tune from in the future.
    Joe Darwin
  • jdarwinjdarwin Posts: 1,381 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Tried stock length (6.898) with the old Fischer numbers and the ski did not want to stay outbound - turned back in too quickly. I'll split the difference tonight (6.885) and see how that pans out. But, the 2.453 depth has made both sides symetrical which was my first challenge.
    Joe Darwin
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,504 Mega Baller
    Joe, based on the other thread sounds like you should get a nano twist instead
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • jdarwinjdarwin Posts: 1,381 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Dave - give me your cc # and I'll be on one by the weekend.
    Joe Darwin
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