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Robbie's Warmups.

Phil2360Phil2360 Posts: 367 Baller
edited April 2011 in Technique & Theory
Couple of my eldest boys runs @30mph. Think he needs to work on getting his arms a bit lower & shoulders back a bit more.
He complains about the pressure on his back.

Any suggestions & comments welcome.



  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,015 Mega Baller
    edited April 2011
    First thing I see is that he needs to get more of his weight on his front foot. Also he could be holding onto the rope longer almost out to the buoy line. It looks to me that he is changing his edge by releasing the handle. Work on having him edge change, keeping the handle in then releasing it.
  • 94009400 Posts: 614 Crazy Baller
    edited April 2011
    I see some good stuff in his skiing. I think he's trying to take to much angle out of the turns and has to give it back almost immediately so he's struggling to stay connected in the work zone. If he were to try to ski closer to 45 degree angles instead of perpendicular to the boat path I think he would find the stress on his body would be much less and the pace would feel a lot slower. Starting with the gate. He also needs to lead with his core, drive with belly button, hips connected to the handle...whatever way he understands to drive the center of mass out. Then progessive off the handle/progessive on the handle.
  • skiing2heavenskiing2heaven Posts: 78 Baller
    edited April 2011

    Very talented skier. With just a little work, he will pick up a whole pass and a lot more.

    He is standing nice and tall right before the turn in for the gates which is nice!

    As he is turning in for the gates and at the end of every turn, he is dropping his hips away from the boat and rolling the ski too far up on edge. This is causing him to have separation (elbows are not locked to the vest) and to start leading with the shoulders.

    He is also loading too soon out of the turn. (pulling on the rope too soon) This is why he is getting pulled up by the boat to soon through the wakes. His work zone is right off the buoy to the first wake, instead of through the wakes. (I think concentrating about having more weight on his front foot would make matters worse. He needs to get stacked better and the proper weight distribution will take care of itself. )

    He is noticeably more separated out of 1, 3, 5 and is dropping his hips and butt away more. (weak side pull)
    - This is causing him to overturn the ski slightly.
    - This is causing him to load to hard out of the buoy, and to be flat cross course, and to be leading with the shoulders more through the wakes.
    - This is causing a dangerous wake crossing.
    - This is also putting excess strain on his back!

    He needs to work on executing the proper body position on Dry Land First!!! (Dry Land Training Videos Part 1.2.3, especially if his back is already bothering him!!!)
    -stand tall (knees slightly bent)
    -vest to the elbows (low anchor point)
    -chest out
    -shoulders back
    -hips up
    -arms straight
    -handle in the pocket/power

    By having this correct body position, this will help to prevent the dropping the hips away at the end of the turn and will help to prevent the overturning that is going on.
    - He will then have a smoother hook up with the boat out of the turn, and will then start to have a progressive pull cross course.
    -He will then move his work zone/pulling phase from "the buoy to the first wake" that is happening now, to "through the wakes".
    - He should just attempt to keep on "turning the ski all the way to the second wake" while maintaining this correct body position, and then the work zone will naturally then be between the wakes.

    Also, what are his points (if any) for..........
    -his pullout for the gates
    -his turn in for the gates
    -before each turn buoy while in the course?

    Once again, he is a very talented and strong skier. With just a little work, he could be knocking out some big scores!! Great job!!! Im impressed!

  • Phil2360Phil2360 Posts: 367 Baller
    Thanks for the advice.

    Now got a couple for 32mph runs up.

    Had a few rollers 3 to 5 buoys.
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,972 Mega Baller
    He looks good out there. I would add that he could get higher up on the boat for the gates.

    How old is he? I would definitely bump him to 34 mph. With my little guy I tend to bump the speed when he makes a pass. Getting used to the higher speeds makes the slower speeds easier for him.
    Mark Shaffer
  • WishWish Posts: 7,884 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Adding to skiing2heavans training tips. Use that same dry land dill on the water. Have him pull out to the side of the boat and get into that stacked body position described above and hold. See if he can maintain that hold the entire length of the course. Even have him try to stay outside the turn ball line. As he gets himself closer to the strong stacked position you will see him come up on the boat. If he loses position like his hips he will drop back. Can be done for right or left leans. I have skiers do this for one trip up the course and one trip back. Then thay ski there regular set. Dry land training first. Vidio both.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • skiing2heavenskiing2heaven Posts: 78 Baller
    edited May 2011
    I agree with Wish and I'm glad that Chef23 brought up the gates. Remember,....

    "What you start with in the course is what you will end with in the course."

    The reason I previously asked about Robbie's GATE PULL OUT and TURN IN POINT is because if he is turning in for his gates too late, the excess load on the ski and on his body will force Robbie to crush a bit to be able to hold the excess cross course angle. So if even if Robbie is attempting to STAND TALL, he won't be able to. As he is turning in, the excess load will force Robbie to bend his knees and drop into a lower more leveraged position, in an attempt to maintain proper cross course angle in an attempt to make the gates.

    As Robbie is approaching the wakes, the excess load is too great and is standing Robbie up prematurely. So his work zone is from the buoy to the first wake, instead of the ideal, through the wakes.

    If Robbie were to pull out wider on the boat for his turn in for his gates, and then would turn in at the same point, this may only give Robbie more Load/Width/Speed cross course which would be undesirable.

    3 point pull out for the gates (off Schnitz’s website )
    1) Initiate pullout when the right 55 green buoy, is at the nose of the boat
    2) (this step is a little advanced) Quit pulling out when the 3 ball crosses over the left hand gate buoy. Maintain width just inside 2,4,6
    3) Turn in for the gates when the 1 ball is just past the left hand gate buoy, (point the ski just inside the right hand gate buoy and go)

    At first, to demonstrate this to Robbie, I would first jump in the boat with Robbie and attempt to show Robbie this perspective from the sitting in the boat and repeat it a few times so Robbie knows what points to look for while skiing. This will save a lot of wasted passes on the ski.

    By turning in earlier with these points, the load on the ski and on the body is much, much, less which will allow Robbie to stand tall, and to maintain a stacked position through the course. With this narrower path through the course, it will be even more important for Robbie to keep both hands on the handle longer, to maintain better handle control, which will provide better width and a tight line.

    Here are two photos of Dave Miller and Todd Johnson at 39off, at the Big Dawg Finals 2010.(courtesy Schnitz!)
    - Notice the turn in points for their gates.
    -notice how far back the water is being displacebefore the completion of the turn in for their gates, revealing where they actually started
    edge-changing for the turn in for the gate.
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