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Rear toe or high wrap for child

ktm300ktm300 Posts: 404 Baller
edited May 2011 in Skis Fins Bindings
I put my 70lb 10 yo in double wiley jr highwraps. Progressing fast. The ski is just slow to turn. Have already made appropriate fin adjustments to speed it up...not working (2.440). Of course trouble is more on offside. 62" RCX. Will rear toe make it easier for her the turn the ski? She declares that she does not want to use a rear toe but if it will likely help, I'll put in on there. The turns are just too big. Thanks.


  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,961 Mega Baller
    How fast is she skiing? My experience with kids is that at slow speeds the turns take care of themselves. If they get the body position right and work hard behind the boat they have plenty of time to get the ski to turn.

    I can't comment on the rtp vs high wrap issue as my son has only been in a high wrap.
    Mark Shaffer
  • ktm300ktm300 Posts: 404 Baller
    28.6 and moving up. At slow speeds setup seemed almost irrelevant. It is starting to matter some now. At 70lbs 30.4 seems pretty darn fast.
  • elrelr Posts: 286 Mega Baller
    How would a RTP help the with the turn? I like the RTP for a different reason - Reflex shell can be used for both trick and slalom.
    Ed Rink - LSF Texas
  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,304 Mega Baller
    My 14 yo Boys 3 son likes a RTP. Not sure that the RTP helps him turn, but he likes the feel, so we are sticking with it. He is skiing into 28 off at 36. My 12 yo Boys 2 son likes a RTP, too, but he has a history of being more "wild" in his skiing and taking some nasty crashes. He was prone to hurting his front knee with his back foot coming out during falls, so I put him into double high wraps and he is fine on them now and a good bit safer with both feet in. He is into 28 at 34 mph currently. Putting him into double high wraps didn't seem to really affect his ability to turn the ski for better or worse. I would think her turn "speed" issues would be more related to her technique or possibly her setup. Got any video?
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,961 Mega Baller
    I agree at 28.6 you need to start to turn the ski but I still think the key is getting early for the buoy then she should be able to set u the turn properly. I agree that the speed seems fast. My son just turned 12 and is beginning his second year in boys 2 and 34 seems like it is flying for him.
    Mark Shaffer
  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 1,522 Mega Baller

    I have a hunch that with the rear plate, her feet are too far apart. Check that her toes are at least close to the horseshoe on the front binding. Toes riding on top of the horseshoe are ok. Too far apart will cause the big turns. You may have to get the hacksaw out, as well as drill some new holes in the plate to move it forward enough.

    The 62" RCX is a great kid ski, and pretty forgiving on setup. FWIW, here are some numbers:

    6.953 tips
    0.735 needle
    front binding at 27 1/2
    I'm Ancient. WTH do I know?
  • LeonLLeonL Posts: 2,345 Crazy Baller
    IMHO, offside turns are not controlled by the rear foot. Onside turns on the other hand are impacted much more by the rear foot. How is her onside turn?
    Leon Leonard Stillwater Lake KY - SR Driver SR Judge
  • ktm300ktm300 Posts: 404 Baller
    Thanks guys.

    Bruce, I took her Wiley's off the aluminum plates and mounted them to a single G10 plate with her rear big toe touching the horseshoe.

    Until now, I had the front boot at 28" with the fin forward and shallow. Was balanced and worked well until 28.6. I did move her boots back to 27.5 and moved the fin back with it. I did not have nearly the length that you recommend and was still about 50/1000 forward of your number. D3 lists .770 needle. The ski was doing the windshield wiper. I was thinking that the boots were too far back but, forward and less length could be the culprit too.

    The boot forward position could account for the school bus turns at higher speed?

    She is 4' 7" and weighs 70lbs. If at that size you feel that the numbers you stated will work, that's what she'll ride tonight.

    As to the rear boot thing, I tried to ski in double hardshells for a week. I'm RFF and could not go left to save my life. Also I used to ski with a stiff eva kd rear boot that was quite high. A friend and great skier, told me to try a wiley's rear. I almost fell on the pullout as the ski turned so much more. For some skiers, allowing the rear leg to bow out a bit and move the ankle and foot more makes a critical difference. Remi Reflex rear etc.

    Thanks again for the help.
  • ktm300ktm300 Posts: 404 Baller
    Leon, she can turn the onside no matter what. If she can get to it ...
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,872 Infinite Pandas
    I wish I was using a toe kicker for slalom still. I'm too used to the rear boot now. Too much boot on the rear can cause the skier to ride the tail which will hurt the performance. It is not too difficult to learn how to compensate. Lots of really good skiers use double boots.
    It may be a bit safer to use the rear boot - I took some mildly damaging falls trying to go back. But I skied for a long time safely on the toe kicker. Lots of really good skiers use toe kickers.
    To get the same movement with double boots, I run the rear boot oversize or loose. Best of both worlds?
    I currently use double hardshells. I removed the clip from the rear cuff and replaced it with a heavy rubber band. I don't need spring things for the rear boot with the rubber band. I too could not make double hardshells turn properly when they were stiff and tight but now they rock!
    Good luck but don't stress too much - she can adapt to whatever you tell her is best.
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