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Rear boot angle on a double boot setup

dtm8119dtm8119 Posts: 169 Baller
edited June 2011 in Skis Fins Bindings
Hello all -

I recently purchased a radar vice with the double strada boots. This is my first ski I've had using a boot for my rear foot. I'm curious if you all mount your rear boot straight without an angle, or if you angle it off to one side or the other? I'm LFF, and was considering angling the rear boot off to the left just a tad.
Dan Cloutier

Comments

  • KlingerKlinger Posts: 71 Baller
    Most perfer to rotate the rear boot some. The direction would be your rear heal will go towards what foot forward you are. In your case, LFF, your rear heal will move to the left of the ski, your rear toes will move to the right of the ski, aka clockwise. Most find it to be more comfortable. Just try it and see what feels the best for you!
  • DockoelbotoDockoelboto Posts: 85 Baller
    sorry to bring up very old posts but I just learned about this.

    During a recent D3 demo, the rep asked if I like my rear boot angled at all. I was stunned, mostly that I have never thought of doing this. He mentioned it can help with positioning especially on the off-side. I always wondered why there were so many rear holes on the binding but never put it together that you could angle it a bit.

    My question is, does this really help with the off-side?

    My off-side pull is my biggest weak spot. I just feel so awkward that I have a really hard time trusting the ski and my position to avoid going over the front. I tend to go slow and flat and then I have no chance to make the next ball.

    Does angling the rear boot help or is it just for comfort?

    Thanks!
  • MDB1056MDB1056 Posts: 288 Baller
    Agree with @Klinger - for LFF you should “ open” the rear boot - toe right - heel left. Your essentially canting it to the right. I tried it for a while (I’m LFF) and didn’t notice any change so moved back to straight. You may love it
  • DockoelbotoDockoelboto Posts: 85 Baller
    so it sounds like it is mostly a comfort thing or personal preference and if you "feel" like it helps you it may be worth it.
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,876 Infinite Pandas
    Be careful with rotating the back boot. Moving the direction to open up the foot as described by @Klinger (and done by trick skiers) is fine. This can allow better mobility and help your skiing.

    DON'T rotate the other direction! There's something about how the loads get passed through the hip that is problematic. I tried a "wrong way" twist of the back boot and improved my buoy count. But my hip got quite sore and I had to abandon that experiment if I wanted to keep walking. Later, a mismount of the rear boot that way broke my hip on the pull out for the gates - with no fall!

    Eric
    Drago
  • DockoelbotoDockoelboto Posts: 85 Baller
    ugh, broken hip = very bad! I'm considering opening my back boot, see if I like it. mostly I'm hoping it helps me but hopefully I don't break my hip!
  • bsmithbsmith Posts: 53 Baller
    @eleeski My left knee has oesteoarthritis and gets sore easily from lots of pressure on it. Since that is my rear foot in slalom, that situation helps encourage me to stay heavy on the front foot. But my left knee still gets loaded quite a bit so I experimented with rotating my rear binder clockwise (wrong direction from your perspective). Since I am a beginner in the course, my offside turn is much weaker than my onside turn so I was thinking that maybe I would get a double benefit from doing this, less pain in my knee and a better offside turn.

    I have skied twice this way and found some relief to my knee and also feel some improvement on my offside turn as well. I also felt nothing as regards my hips. I have never had hip problems of any kind. Do you think that maybe the issues you experienced with your hip using a "wrong way" rear binding rotation is specific to your situation and that for others it may be perfectly safe to do this?
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,876 Infinite Pandas
    There were other factors in my injury. I'm old and fragile. I had a minor hip injury from tricking. I was evaluating a new ski which wasn't working. It was rough water. I was tired at the end of a long set. I was trying too hard.

    Don't worry about breaking your hip or major injuries. Waterskiing allows good longevity so you can ski well into your old frail times.

    @bsmith Everyone is different. I have family hip issues (I have a titanium hip, my father had a hip replacement, and my brother Stan has two artificial hips) so you might be correct about it being specific to me. I have heard from others who tried "wrong way" rotation who have had hip pain. So my hips are not rare and the rotation should be approached carefully.

    As far as knee protection, my knee injuries have felt horrible with internal rotation. I'd be personally very hesitant to rotate a sore knee that way.

    Mechanically, rotating the wrong way might help your offside. Your rear heel is closer to the offside edge so you can stomp more pressure on that edge. Might cause bad habits because that pressure is pretty far back on the ski and it's not considered good form to ski back on the ski. As a coach, I'd advise against the "wrong way" rotation and instead have you focus on smooth tip pressure in the turn - easier with the more natural skeletal alignment that a small amount of normal rotation can offer.

    Eric
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,142 Mega Baller
    General rule: rotate the boot to the little toe no matter what foot or foot forward.

    The front foot actually helps the offside if it does anything for you. Think about how you drive an offside turn with the front big toe. If it is angle slightly further away from the turn it will help more rotation of direction.

    I personally have never liked either boot rotated. I know skiers that do. It’s a trial and error thing.
  • lakeside7455lakeside7455 Posts: 58 Baller
    I'm LFF, I like to rotate the rear boot clockwise, it is more comfortable and seems to help offside turns, which is my weak point also. It doesn't affect on-side turns at all. I think skiers with rear toe plate can shift that rear foot at an angle naturually, so they do the same thing.
  • DangerBoyDangerBoy Posts: 304 Solid Baller
    edited September 23
    I concur that for LFF, rotating the rear boot clockwise is advisable - at least for some people. I rotate mine as far as it can go and it works great for me. It's more comfortable and feels like it's a more natural/ergonomic and stable stance to be in and for me at least it's easier on my right hip and knee (LFF).

    To answer your question @Dockoelboto, I think it will help your offside (I actually think it helps me turn better on both sides). It's definitely worth giving a try!
    I can take anything apart
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,822 Mega Baller
    edited September 23
    I always think about extremes when trying to understand how one action effects another. If I were to rotate the back foot say 90 degrees (toes over the edge), then my hips could never be aligned with the direction of the ski (belly button can't easily face perfectly forward). I would feel more like a "wakeboard" stance and turns would become more "heal-side" (on) or "toe-side" (off).

    Similarly in Trick skiing, skiers do rotate their back foot. If you have ever seen a trick skier do "back-to-back" tricks, you know they have an "on" and and "off" (reverse) side for their "half-wraps (180 turns without holding the rope behind them). I was told that the more a tricker rotate's the back foot, the harder the off side (reverse) half-wrap is to achieve and hold. This is because the hips are not in line with the ski and rotating in that reverse direction takes more effort and flexibility to get their and hold it.

    Anyway, put all of that into context of the "counter-rotation" concept. All I know is that if I stand on dry land in my slalom stance with my back foot rotated toward the pinky toe, and artificially "counter rotate" my hips in direction my rear binding is pointed; it is easy.
    However, the other direction is harder. The more my back binding is rotated outward, the more this is true.

    Back to extremes. If I stand on dry land in my slalom stance, but this time rotate my back foot the opposite way (in the big toe direction), then it is easier to "counter-rotate" my hips equally in each direction. (Again, this seems very unnatural and is likely creating risky forces on the body. I am not advocating this beyond insightful, dry land activity.)

    So what does this mean? IDK. I just know that symmetrical skiing requires asymmetrical effort, flexibility, and strength conditioning. It seems to me that rotating the back binding would be result in more asymmetry of stance.
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
    skialex
  • DockoelbotoDockoelboto Posts: 85 Baller
    I rotated my back binding (LFF) clockwise a bit, going to try it soon. Just to see how it feels. I guess I'll wait and see! thanks for the comments.
    Shakeski
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