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M3, why 34 mph?

jwroblewjwroblew Posts: 143 Baller
edited June 2011 in News & Other Stuff
Turned 35 two years ago, at that time I just set a new PB at 36 mph and was still getting better. I think the age of 35 is too young to start dropping boat speed, women don't drop to the next boat speed until Women 5, age 53. AWSA should have two divisions for M3, one for those who want to go 34 mph and one for those who want to go 36mph. I understand you can ski at 36 mph in Men 3, but you end up handicapping yourself against everyone else.

Who else thinks M3 should be 36 mph or at least have two divisions?


  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,085
    How do you handicap yourself? You still get scored based on the zero buoy scoring, so if you ski at 36mph you get credit for 6 extra buoys in comparison to the 34mph skiers.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,034 Mega Baller
    Why not just have the age brackets for M2 and M3 over lap but you can only advance to M3 (34) if you want after you reach 35 or you can stay in M2 then advance to M4 when you are at the age limit for M3
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 1,775 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    This is my favorite subject!!! I believe Canada will allow you to stay in M2 if you want to continue to ski at 36. Seems this would be a simple solution to the issue.

    As for why the drop?I think it it to keep us middle age guys in the sport. Men over 35 are the main ones buying boats, skis, and and sending kids to ski school. If you give us an extra pass by dropping the speed you keep us (and our dollars) interested and in the sport instead of just going to play golf or spend all our money on hunting trips or sports cars. I mean why else would it be guys and not women. My wife is 38, has had 3 kids, 2 knee surgeries, and 1 on her hip and she goes the same speed as open women until she is 53? (That's okay BTW, she has no desire to go 32)

    Are you sure about the scoring Shane? [email protected] at [email protected] at 34 in Reg/Nats?

  • webbdawg99webbdawg99 Posts: 1,067 Mega Baller
    Yes. [email protected] at 36 is the same buoy count at [email protected] at 34.
  • clemsondaveclemsondave Posts: 369 Baller
    I think they did that for a year or two, but not the case anymore. You can use a higher speed, but you will not receive the extra 6 buoys.

    Rule 10.06.

    A skier may elect to start at a speed higher than his division maximum speed, up to his respective Open Division maxi-mum speed and may not return to his division maximum speed on subse-quent passes. Any passes skied at that higher speed shall receive credit for buoys as though they were being run at his division maximum speed.
    Dave Satterfield - Richmond Water Ski Club
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 1,775 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    Thanks for the clarification clemson. That was how I understood the rule.
  • gjohnsongjohnson Posts: 309 Solid Baller
    You forgot to mention that you're traveling the same speed as a 14 year girl.
    Greg Johnson ~ Team Beer
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,209 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Does that mean "Big Dawg" should really be called "Little Girly Man"?
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 1,775 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    There has been some talk of making MM a 35 mph division. That would make it a truely different division and I think a good idea.

    Personally, I would prefer the option of going 36. Either by staying in M2 or by making a division for >35 that had 36 as top speed. That would be my choice for what MM should be.
  • jayskijayski Posts: 850 Mega Baller
    FYI, In Canada you can drop down a division, as stated by Scot, we only have a 'Mens' Division now which is a combine of M1 and M2....We don't have a MM division, which is unfortunate, and it would be awesome to have it at 35mph! That speed feels just perfect to ski @...
  • jwroblewjwroblew Posts: 143 Baller
    Two divisions for M3 makes sense, or let me ski 36 mph but give me the extra 6 balls, or let me ski M2. They let Boys / Girls 1 to ski up into Boys / Girls 2, for jump reasons I'm guessing, but a Boys / Girls 2 can also ski up into 3.

    They only problem making MM 36 mph means it's basically the same as Open, plus I'm not that good enough yet to run 3 balls at 39 off, so that would keep me out of that division...
  • skidawgskidawg Posts: 3,299 Mega Baller
    I agree w/ jayski; 35mph is the perfect speed.
    Mr. Mom is Horton's favorite movie!
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 1,775 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    edited June 2011
    The whole idea is so that it is not the same as open. If that were the case it would be like saying that M1 and M2 are the "same" as open. This would be for guys over 35 to be able and compete at 36, but not have to have an open rating and be forced to ski against CP, Rossi, etc., or guys going 34.

    Simple fix go with the "men's division" like Jay mentioned in Canada. You can keep M1-2 as is and make all ages above go together if you like.
  • DirtDirt Posts: 1,608 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    I prefer 36 mph but the 6 buoy disadvantage is hard to overcome. When I first went into Mens 3 I skied some tournaments at 34 mph. I thought it was good that USAWS changed the rule to allow this. 35 mph would be a great division.
    I learned everything I know not to do from Horton
  • skidawgskidawg Posts: 3,299 Mega Baller
    make MM & bigdawg events 35 mph, problem solved
    Mr. Mom is Horton's favorite movie!
  • jwroblewjwroblew Posts: 143 Baller
    Here is my problem with 34. When people get older, do the lower the basketball rim to 8.5 feet? Do they make the whole on the green of a golf course bigger? No and no. If you run a pass at 34 mph there will always be someone who says "that was good, BUT it was ONLY 34 mph". Which defiantly takes something away from the accomplishment. Don't get me wrong I have the utmost respect for the Big Dawg guys, I'll probably never be able to run into 41 like those guys do.
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,209 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    It seems none of us, myself included, were "ready" in our own minds to drop to 34 mph. At the time, I felt I had unfinished business at 36, and admit there was some pride to being a 36'er at tourneys where most were at 34.
    I have become a far more technically correct skier at 34, and actually ski 36 better now when I bump the speed up for fun. Almost wonder if in my M2 days it would have paid to train 34 mph for the first month of the season.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • GKGK Posts: 138 Baller
    I don't think we need anymore divisions, but I think they should allow the other age divisions to ski 36 mph and give them credit for 6 additional buoys. It would just add one more element of choice for each individual skier when he enters a tournament. I think this is a better option than being allowed to stay in M2, however staying in M2 would be better than the current system.
    Greg Kuenning - Cincinnati, OH
  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    I like skiing 34mph. 36 was fun, and is still sometimes a fun training speed, but 34 is much easier on my body, especially when I make a mistake. There is obviously a lot of personal preference here. I think if a M3 skier wants 36, let them ski it. Otherwise, go ahead and make MM a 36mph division. Choice is good, within reasonable limits. As an M4 skier, I want nothing to do with 36mph tournament skiing!
    Jim Ross
  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
    Combine this thread with the INT thread. Ability based groups would allow you to ski 36 as long as you want.
    Chick speed rocks.
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,935 Infinite Pandas
    36 vs 34 is not a full 6 buoy difference - especially at deep shortline. While it varies from skier to skier, buoy counts rarely improve by 6 buoys with a speed decrease. I proposed a rule change to allow skiers to ski at higher speeds and get 3 buoys credit for the overspeed pass (but nothing I propose ever happens). What do you think is a realistic handicap for the speed difference?

    Note that senior worlds go at 34. Older guys and more so girls have AWSA mandated maximums that are slower than senior world speeds. For our international competitiveness, we should allow and encourage overspeeding (at least to senior world speeds).

    Along those lines, shortline is a kick. If you can start shortening the rope at slower speeds you might be able to have more fun. Allow shortening at slower speeds (with the 6 buoy penalty) might attract more developing skiers.

  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    I know a skier who has skied both speeds (M4) and consistently runs 38 off. I asked him once if going down to 34 helped his scores. He said he is within a ball or two at either speed. That isn't true for me!
    Jim Ross
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