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Issues with STARGAZER

2

Comments

  • slalomdudeslalomdude Posts: 154
    "My line is not that short ", c'mon John ,39 is pretty damn short<img src="/vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cool.gif" border="0" alt="Cool" title="Cool" />. 
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,750 Administrator
    I have seen the color but I would not say we are friends

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  • LZywicki1LZywicki1 Posts: 365 Crazy Baller
    Just got  this e-mail fromm Gary at PP about the fix to the software:  <span style="font-size: 11pt; color: #1f497d; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">I will call you when available.  </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: #1f497d; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">We will swap Modules, but will require a credit card # which will only be charged if the old Module is not mailed back within 21 days.</span>
    First thing we get rid of the safety equipment
  • lkblkb Posts: 629 Baller
    the zo update is a download. I skied it today. It's a definite improvement over the original version. On "a" it felt soft in a good way. My ski partner who is lot heavier than me really liked "c".
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 4,487 Mega Baller
    <hr />
    <p>
    This is straight from the horse's mouth :
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    <p>
    From: [email protected]

    To: [email protected]

    CC: [email protected]

    Subject: RE: Stargazer

    Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 08:52:44 -0400

    </p>
    <div align="left">
    <span class="EC_328384512-21032008"><font face="Arial" size="3" color="#008080">Hi Rob,</font></span>
    </div>
    <div align="left">
    <span class="EC_328384512-21032008"><font face="Arial" size="3" color="#008080"></font></span>
    </div>
    <div align="left">
    <span class="EC_328384512-21032008"><font face="Arial" size="3" color="#008080">Yep.   Some boats have been getting slow 3 ball times.  The issue is not on all boats.  From the reports I am getting back from customers, most boats are fine.  But some -- especially softer boats are having the problem.  StarGazer logic only allows so much correction so that a skier is not penalized.   Thus, if a boat gets behind at the gates, it will get a slow three ball.   PP has been working with these boats the last few weeks to come up with some logic that allows them to be much more aggressive coming into the gates.   Reports are positive.   They say they are going to put this logic in system wide for all boats.</font></span>
    </div>
    <div align="left">
    <span class="EC_328384512-21032008"><font face="Arial" size="3" color="#008080"></font></span>
    </div>
    <div align="left">
    <span class="EC_328384512-21032008"><font face="Arial" size="3" color="#008080">Once they get the new logic approved, they are going to do a swap in the mail with folks that already have StarGazers.  I would say to go ahead and install your unit.  Just leave the MasterControl hanging off a zip tie rather than screw it down.   Then when they send you your new MasterControl, you can swap it out easy and mail your old one back.  Dave talked to Carol at PP a couple days ago, and she said they were hoping to start swapping out units next week....... Got my fingers crossed.</font></span>
    </div>
    <div align="left">
    <span class="EC_328384512-21032008"><font face="Arial" size="3" color="#008080"></font></span>
    </div>
    <div align="left">
    <span class="EC_328384512-21032008"><font face="Arial" size="3" color="#008080">We have a list of all our customers emails that have StarGazers and are planning on sending them a note as soon as PP says they are ready.</font></span>
    </div>
    <div align="left">
    <span class="EC_328384512-21032008"><font face="Arial" size="3" color="#008080"></font></span>
    </div>
    <div align="left">
    <span class="EC_328384512-21032008"><font face="Arial" size="3" color="#008080">Hope this helps.</font></span>
    </div>
    <div align="left">
    <span class="EC_328384512-21032008"><font face="Arial" size="3" color="#008080">

    Max</font></span>
    </div>
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,750 Administrator
    <p class="MsoNormal">
    <font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000">Times do not really make sense with out a skier (Fast in, slow out and <span> </span>perfect end course) but we finally tried StarGazer Sunday. With a skier the times were weird in the other direction (Slow in, Fast out and Perfect end course). Honestly it felt fine. With and old boat that I think is as strong as any of the new boats I felt like I had to go to KX+ to get wide. I do not do this with classic. It felt pretty good and the end times were all near perfect. </font>
    </p>
    <font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000"> </font>
    <p class="MsoNormal">
    <font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000">Seems like the segment times did not always make sense compared to the full course. Something like lose .01 every segment but get a perfect end course?!? Beats me. I guess the new chip will clear it up.</font>
    </p>
    <font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000"> </font>
    <p class="MsoNormal">
    <font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000">Also had the display just go blank a few times. I love and hate new stuff.</font>
    </p>

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  • DekeDeke Posts: 395 Baller
    <p>
    John,
    </p>
    <p>
    My old (ver 4.01b) PP external display goes blank every once in a while.  We thought it was a grounding issue and gave it a direct ground to the battery with no results, then just gave up.  Over time I realize that it always blanks out when  switching the heater on or off (more often turning it off), which probably means it is a voltage thing.  Been living with it since '99.
    </p>
    <p>
     Deke
    </p>
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,750 Administrator
    Just spoke to PerfectPass . . .  Sounds like they are making progress and the fix should be out pretty soon. I think they are a little bummed that the product got out before they worked the bugs out. Fact is version one skis ok.

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

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  • <p class="MsoNormal">
    <font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000">The wind down from turning off the heater fan motor can cause it to be a temporary generator that may briefly send a reverse voltage glitch that is sensed by the display. </font>
    </p>
    <p class="MsoNormal">
    <font size="3"><font color="#000000"><font face="Times New Roman"><span></span></font></font></font>
    </p>
    <p class="MsoNormal">
    <font size="3"><font color="#000000"><font face="Times New Roman"><span> </span>Some sensitive electronic equipment will sort of burp or hiccup from it.</font></font></font>
    </p>
  • DekeDeke Posts: 395 Baller
    <p>
    Not to hijack the thread, but...
    </p>
    <p>
    Lakewaterjunky, do you know any know fix?
    </p>
  • WeappaWeappa Posts: 65 Baller
    <p>
    Add a diode to the power wire to the PP
    </p>
  • WeappaWeappa Posts: 65 Baller
    Make that add a diode in-line to the power wire of the fan motor
  • <p class="MsoNormal">
    <font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000">In line with the wire feeding the fan motor is the likely location.</font>
    </p>
    <p class="MsoNormal">
    <font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000"></font>
    </p>
    <p class="MsoNormal">
    <font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000"> If you have a run indicator lamp/light on the switch or elsewhere, maybe put it in line with the hot wire somewhere just before the fan. Otherwise, place it in line with the negative wire feeding it, be sure to get one that will handle the current. 10amp draw from your fan=150watt or so and a15amp draw=at least a 200watt. I hope it works out for you. </font>
    </p>
    <p class="MsoNormal">
    <font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000"></font>
    </p>
    <p class="MsoNormal">
    <font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000">I'd be glad to share any info that may be helpful <a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a></font>
    </p>
  • Director DarwinDirector Darwin Posts: 381 Baller
    <p>
    lkb:  A member of my club is picking up his Nautique promo on Friday.  How do we determine which version his boat has? - CC is notorious for not sending boats out w/ the most up-to-date software.
    </p>
    <p>
    If it is determined that his software is not the most current, how does one access the update?  If by USB / laptop, that works for me.  Thanks. 
    </p>
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 4,487 Mega Baller
    Deke - Make sure your PP is wired with it's own circuit. Give the PP it's own "key on" power source, that way heater, shower, radio, etc. won't give a voltage drop to the PP's power supply.

    JD - When you initially power up PP, it'll say what version it is as it initializes.
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
  • Director DarwinDirector Darwin Posts: 381 Baller
    Roger:  We have Star Gazer on site in an 08 Malibu - I was inquiring w/ lkb regarding Zero Off.  Determining what version and the procedure to update.
  • lkblkb Posts: 629 Baller
    <p>
    JD,
    </p>
    <p>
    Checking for the revision is really simple. When you power up the ZO you should see "rev O" in big letters on the first screen that comes up. If it don't see it you still have the old version. If you need the update you will have to have a communications cable(maybe I could mail you mine if your dealer doesn't have one) and you'll have to download the software and get a password to run it. That part requires that you call ZO. I have a phone # for the guy that you should talk to. E-mail me if you need help.
    </p>
    <p>
    I was lead to believe that my boat had the revision before it left the factory. It took a lot of e-mailing to figure that it didn't and to figure out how to get it updated. My dealer didn't know anything about it. Correct Craft doesn't have the logistics worked out on this at all.
    </p>
  • Director DarwinDirector Darwin Posts: 381 Baller
    <p>
    <em>"Correct Craft doesn't have the logistics worked out on this at all".  </em>Surprise, surprise, surprise!!  They are notorious for sending out product w/o current updates.  My 2005 promo boat came with PP version <strong>5.0!</strong>  That version was 4 years old at that time.  
    </p>
    <p>
    Thanks for the updates.  I'll be in touch. 
    </p>
  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,097
    <p>
    Has anyone tried to calibrate on a 3 magnet course?  The one course we ski at the private lake has all ball timing magnets; but, the public course that we hit every once in a while has end gates and a 3 ball split only.  I tried running the calibration on the public course and I kept getting really wacky times and very inconsistent; both fast and slow times.  Anyone else experience this?  Any suggestions?  i am going to calibrate at the all ball timing course; but, what happens when I go to the public course that only has the 3 ball split.  If I toggle to the single magnet setting; won't the 3 ball magnet screw up the times?  Anyone know the answer to this one?
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    Bob Grizzi
  • Ed_ObermeierEd_Obermeier Posts: 1,345 Crazy Baller
    <p>
    To my knowledge there is nothing to calibrate with Stargazer.  The gate magnet tells the timer to start timing, SG times how long it takes to travel 259 meters, that's it.  It will give you split times but they're virtual times, there is nothing in connection with the course that triggers anything connected with SG to tell it where exactly each gate is located.  It doesn't read the buoys, magnets, or anything, just measures the distance via GPS and tells you how long it took to travel that distance ASSUMING that the gates are in exactly the correct location (whether they are or not).  Any other magnets on the course are ignored so they won't screw anything up.
    </p>
    <p>
    You can calibrate your boat FOR THAT PARTICULAR COURSE using Classic mode, then switch to SG and see what the differences are if any.  But my understanding is that there's nothing to calibrate, SG (and ZO for that matter) measure elapsed time over a set distance traveled and that's it.
    </p>
    <p>
    Ed  
    </p>
    Ed Obermeier - owner, EZ-Slalom Course Systems
    www.ez-slalom.com
  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,097
    Thanks for the input and advice.  When you first fire up SG it puts you in a calibration mode and it instructs you to run through the course to adjust the RPM as necessary to bring the times in accurately.  It would make sense that you could do this in the classic PP mode and make small adjustments in the GPS mode.  The manual does specify to switch from a multi magnet mode to a single magnet mode depending on the course set up.  Why is that?  Unless it just has to do with running in classic PP mode??  I am still confused by this.
    Bob Grizzi
  • Ed_ObermeierEd_Obermeier Posts: 1,345 Crazy Baller
    <p>
    I would think you could just float a magnet somewhere in the lake by itself to calibrate your times, no course required.  The magnet's ONLYfunction is to tell SG WHERE to start timing.  Ideally you place the magnet below an end gate buoy (which is where the course starts) but it's not really necessary for the sake of calibrating your boat speed with the RPM's.  You only need a starting point, after that you're timing 259 meters and that's all.
    </p>
    <p>
    SG times how long it takes to go 259 meters.  Period.  You need to adjust your RPM so that the elapsed time required to cover the 259 meters is on the mark time-wise, but that doesn't require a slalom course to do.  Multi magnet mode I would assume is for using PP Classic - multiple magnets have no use with SG because it only uses one magnet to tell it where to start timing.  Once it starts timing it doesn't need or use magnets for anything else. 
    </p>
    <p>
    I don't know why you couldn't use SG on a course with multiple magnets, all SG requires is the magnet at the entry gate to tell it to start timing, it ignores any other magnets that may be present.  If you have a multi magnet setup on your course you have the option of using SG or PP Classic, whichever you want.  With only a magnet at each end gate you'd only have the option of SG (or hand timing I suppose).  I don't see why the number of magnets on any particular course would make any difference.
    </p>
    <p>
    Ed
    </p>
    Ed Obermeier - owner, EZ-Slalom Course Systems
    www.ez-slalom.com
  • Phil2360Phil2360 Posts: 367 Baller
    <p>
    I think I read somewhere that you can start the timer manually.
    </p>
    <p>
    Maybe it was by pressing the up button.
    </p>
    <p>
     Phil.
    </p>
  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,097
    <p>
    Talked to PP this morning and they are sending me the upgrade module.  They seem to think that my problems stem from having the first version of software and the type of boat.  Just FYI - my boat - 2003 Malibu Response LX w/335 Monsoon.  We shall see if this fix works.
    </p>
    <p>
     I did probe a little deeper and it seems as though they have added a couple more tuning adjustments.  Now they are going to have a settings for "light" or "normal" skiers. 
    </p>
    <p>
    Light = kids, and/or light (not so aggressive) pull
    </p>
    <p>
    Heavy = heavier adults and/or heavier pull
    </p>
    <p>
     This is in addition to the KX settings.  There is also some type of tunability for entrance, 3-ball, and exit gates.  Not sure exactly what this will be; but, it was explained as a way to set the pull at those points in the course.
    </p>
    <p>
    Are we getting too smart???
    </p>
    Bob Grizzi
  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,097
    <p class="MsoNormal">
    <strong><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">FYI.....Email from PP below </span></font></strong>
    </p>
    <p class="MsoNormal">
    <strong><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial"></span></font></strong>
    </p>
    <strong><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">We are ready to start shipping StarGazer Upgrades.</span></font></strong><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">  Please note that we require the replaced Master Module to be returned to PerfectPass within 21 days or full charges will apply. Given we are low on StarGazer inventory, we would appreciate your assistance in getting this in the mail as soon as possible.  A Return Authorization (R/A) form will be sent with your new module which will need to be returned by you with your old Module.</span></font><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial"> </span></font><strong><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">Can you please reply and confirm the following for me:</span></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial"> </span></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">1.  Boat Details:  Year, Make, Model & Engine </span></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">2.  Complete Shipping Address and phone number</span></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">3.  Credit Card Details – forward via email, phone or fax (whichever you are most comfortable with)</span></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">4.  If on Promo Team</span></font></strong><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial"> </span></font><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">We thank you for your assistance and as soon as we get confirmation of <strong><span style="font-weight: bold">all</span></strong> of your details we will proceed with shipping your replacement module to you.</span></font><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial"> </span></font><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">Carol</span></font><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial"> </span></font><em><font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#0000ff"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: blue; font-style: italic">Carol Joyce</span></font></em><em><font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#0000ff"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: blue; font-style: italic">PerfectPass Control Systems Inc.</span></font></em><em><font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#0000ff"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: blue; font-style: italic">14 Trider Crescent</span></font></em><em><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color: blue; font-style: italic"></span></font></em><em><font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#0000ff"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: blue; font-style: italic">Dartmouth</span></font></em><em><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color: blue; font-style: italic">, NS   B3B 1R6</span></font></em><em><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color: blue; font-style: italic"></span></font></em><em><font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#0000ff"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: blue; font-style: italic">Phone:  (902) 468-2150</span></font></em><em><font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#0000ff"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: blue; font-style: italic">Fax:  (902) 468-8837</span></font></em>
    Bob Grizzi
  • SkiRVSkiRV Posts: 42 Baller
    <p>
    skibug,
    </p>
    <p>
    You posted "<em>they have added a couple more tuning adjustments.  Now they are going to have a settings for "light" or "normal" skiers.  </em>
    </p>
    <p>
    <em>Light = kids, and/or light (not so aggressive) pull </em>
    </p>
    <p>
    <em>Heavy = heavier adults and/or heavier pull"</em>
    </p>
    <p>
    I thought one of the StarGazer benefits was the elimanation of settings?   This sounds like what we now call "Skier Weight", just less precise
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    Bruce Smith
  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,097
    <p>
    I am just relaying what I was told by PP.  I agree that if you keep adding more and more "tunability".....what's the point?  Other then a way to make more money on new technology...which is the American way.  I can't hold that against anyone.  In our business we call this technology challenge the "bleeding edge" (indtead of the "leading edge") of technology.  Those that are the first, tend to bleed the worst.
    </p>
    Bob Grizzi
  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,097
    OK, I am looking for some feedback.  I got my updated SG and calibrated it.  I did some timing runs (without a skier); they all came in 16.95 or 16.96.  The troubling part is/was that everytime I got to 3 ball gates; the boat throttled back very noticably to the point where I felt it and heard it.  This can't be good when you have a skier in tow.  Right now my only presumption can be that when you are pulling a skier, this will be less drastic due to the load and slowing of the boat for the first half of the course which should even out the consistancy of the pull.  Does this make sense?  The other troubling thing is that the splits all came out as "OK" when in fact the boat throttled back considerably for that second half.  Logically, I would have thougth that you would see hot 1, 2, & 3 or slow 4, 5, & 6.  Any comments??  
    Bob Grizzi
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,750 Administrator
    Call PP. I think that is the best bet. Besides that ski behind it. As wierd as the times look with my un-updated version it does ski great.

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  • auskierauskier Posts: 457 Baller
    my guess is it will still have some SSB (second segment balance) type parameter as it still controls RPM and not speed as ZO does. with no skier it will need to take out more rpm past 3 ball. thats my guess, tell us what you find out...
    Toby
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