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MC experiment continued

eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,935 Infinite Pandas
edited October 2011 in News & Other Stuff
When I last entertained you with this thread, I had just drilled a massive hole in the wrong spot on my new 11 MC. The blue 04 MC slalom wake benefitted from a bubbler hole further aft but the startup had an unsettling little catch that I could never get rid of. Lisa didn't like the new 11 MC slalom wake so I drilled a bubbler. I went further forward in an attempt to cure the startup issues. Prop slippage, a funky feel and no softening of the wake ended that effort. Plus I had to take the boat to a tournament. So break out the glass and epoxy and the hole is history.

But Lisa is still struggling with the slalom wake. So before I launched the boat back from Imperial tournament I had to try something. I had an old prop that was a couple pitches taller (17 vs 13 I think) so I threw that on. Scratch a taller prop off the list! Sluggish startup, the advantages from C3 erased, poor balance (for tricks also!) and a harder rooster tail made this is a failed experiment.

As far as useful experiments, I did get some good data. The boat came back from Imperial with a full tank of gas. The full tank made the wake bigger and harder (the stock prop went right back on). I normally run 1/4 tank of fuel and the wake is reasonable. The 40 gallons in there when full generates a bigger harder wake. MC could improve the slalom wake easily by offering a 10 gallon gas tank option.

Note that for me the 11 MC is the best wake I've ever felt. Tricks are so much better than ANY other current offering. At my slalom level (running 32 on a good day @34mph), this boat is the best feel. My scores are up in practice and tournament after training behind this boat. Personally, I love it!
I want to preserve this aspect while making it more friendly for Lisa (that 15 off wake is tough). My experimental quest is to maintain the trick wake, maintain the slalom feel I like and to soften the wakes for Lisa.

Trim tabs next?

Eric
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Comments

  • HortonHorton Posts: 28,299 Administrator
    Wow do I hate to encourage you but, when you drill holes, why don’t you install a threaded plug like the one in the engine box?

    I imagine some blood vessels explode in Aarne's head every time you talk about this.

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  • DWDW Posts: 2,057 Mega Baller
    The fuel experiment gives you a hint of what to do (more weight rearward or making the boat pitch a bit transom down is obviously bad). Trim tabs should work and would be pretty easy to do, but anything that will "lift" the transom should help: more hook, lighter platform, no rear seat, fuel tank forward. I would think maybe the CC adjustable tab might be an interesting test (use a slotted piece of aluminum to test it out so you can adjust up/down (tap a few holes to attach to transom).
  • DirtDirt Posts: 1,608 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    edited October 2011
    Add a cavitation plate with the giant foot pedal like my old flat bottom, v-drive k boat. You can change the wake while driving her. I also recommend naming the boat and painting that name across the back. Ex. "Ball of Hair Hater"
    Joking aside, I think that boat already has a bunch of hook in the back of the hull to lift it. I have a 2000 MC with the rudder with a wing on it. I was told that it can be fixed by grinding off the wing and adding hook to the back of the hull.
    I learned everything I know not to do from Horton
  • HortonHorton Posts: 28,299 Administrator
    edited October 2011
    Eric,
    Again I hate to encourage you but.... you know that there is close to 500 pounds of upholstery in most boats. Strip the sucker down and then see how Lisa likes it.

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  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,084
    The later MC's I've seen have relateively little hook in the hull. Some have more than others, though. We had some sweet skiing 10s last year that all had a good bit of hook. the 11s we got around here this year had less. It would be interesting to put a hydrogate on a 197 to add artificial hook. Now THAT would make Aarne have an aneurysm! LOL. For what it's worth, CC has some boats out there in testing with deeper hydrogates than the production ones.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,935 Infinite Pandas
    Who has an old hydrogate for me to try?
    Eric
  • sunperchsunperch Posts: 244 Crazy Baller
    Does it seem weird to anyone else that such drastic measures are being taken to improve the wake of a brand new boat? For that kind of $$$ I would expect a boat that skiied great at all speeds/line lengths.
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,084
    The problem, sunperch, is that a hull design for longer line slalom is not conducive to good trick wakes and vice versa. Which is one reason for Nautique's hydrogate.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • RogerRoger Posts: 1,564 Mega Baller
    edited October 2011
    @eleeski - "The 40 gallons in there when full generates a bigger harder wake."

    40 Gallons? Really? The Mastercraft site says fuel capacity is 28 gallons... (for the 197). Do you have a wakeboard boat?

    Edited to add: I see a PS214 has a 40 gallon tank; is that what you have?
    Roger B. Clark - Okeeheelee skier. Senior driver, Senior Judge
  • JordanJordan Posts: 1,201 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I would experiment with weight distribution and different props. Going bigger made the wake worse...maybe smaller will make it better.

    Maybe 4 blade or a 5 blade.

    At least it's easier to reverse than another hole in the bottom. : )
  • Nick SullivanNick Sullivan Posts: 676 Baller
    Its a 28 gallon tank. The boat needs more hook. Get some bondo and put some hook in it yourself.
  • Mateo_VargasMateo_Vargas Posts: 857 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    It's traditionally been published as 28 gallons but I've never been able to get close to that. It's closer to 23 gallons and I think they forgot to subtract for the rudder access hole.

    How about adding inflatable bladder to the fuel tank so you can limit the amount of fuel without changing the tank.
    Success is failure that just hasn't happened yet
  • Nick SullivanNick Sullivan Posts: 676 Baller
    Bladder adds extra weight, I just use the guage and usually only put 10 maybe 15 gallons in at a time.

    I agree, the tank seems alot smaller than 28.
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,207 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    How about only putting in 5-10 gal at a time even it it's got 80 gal capacity?
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,935 Infinite Pandas
    edited October 2011
    My 04 MC only seemed to hold 15 gallons. The new boat is a world team not a tournament team - maybe that makes it different. But I put in 30 gallons with a quarter tank in the bottom (visually estimated) to take it full to the tournament. It has a big tank. The wake with full tanks is harder than my normal 1/4 tank and below fuel operating range.

    Sunperch, two factors are at work here. One, I enjoy playing with things (is drilling an easily repairable hole really "drastic"?). Second, for me the wakes are optimal, Lisa is the one who doesn't like the slalom wake. Keeping the performance the same for me and softening the rooster tail for Lisa is way cheaper than getting a Centurion for only Lisa to only slalom behind (note that I don't like the feel of the Centurion slalom feel as much as my MC - and the trick wake isn't).

    I'ved played with ballast in the bow. For me it didn't help. And the 15 off rooster tail is still tough regardless of the weighting.

    Lisa was OK with the 04 MC, I tolerated it. Essentially the same hull so I know it should be possible to tune things. I'm looking for the best of both worlds.

    Hey Aarne, where's my bulb strut?

    I'll keep playing and enjoying the process.

    Eric
  • danbirchdanbirch Posts: 301 Baller
    edited October 2011
    Just put a triangular gas tank in the bow, and run a line back to the engine. Be sure you don't hit anything head on...or BOOM!
  • DWDW Posts: 2,057 Mega Baller
    Eric, you will need to make your own version of the hydrogate, the hull profile will be different, thus the comment on simply cutting a piece of aluminum and attaching to the transom. Slots would allow pretty quick change (loosen a few screws, slide up or down to adjust amount of exposed tab) so you can adjust for different skiers.
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,972 Mega Baller
    Start throwing some carbon fiber in there to lighten the boat up.
    Mark Shaffer
  • HortonHorton Posts: 28,299 Administrator
    Chef is right. Splash the hull and make the carbon LeeCraft

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  • jipster43jipster43 Posts: 1,432 Crazy Baller
    My favorite thread continues! I have a mint '93 Stars & Stripes if you ever want to experiment on one of those Eric!

    By the by:
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,935 Infinite Pandas
    Carbon is so last decade. It will be a Boron fiber boat! Whether I save enough gas to pay for the Boron fibers - I can't ski that many hours.

    Seriously, weight loss in a boat is the best way to improve the wakes. Ballast can be added (in the best places) to enhance the trick and wakeboard wakes. More power is available for jump and the slalom wake disappears. All good!

    There are building techniques that could substantially reduce the weight of a boat (vacuum bagging, compression molding and probably several others) as well as judicious selection of materials. Marine engine development has completely ignored weight - or at least weight loss (heavier the better for wakeboarding?).

    But these are out of what I can do for my boat. So I'm stuck playing with patches for the fun of it.

    Eric
  • DustyDusty Posts: 315 Baller
    Sort of off topic but in line with Eric's remark about powerplant weight- I noticed that Ford is moving or has moved to no longer building (gas) V-8's... When/if the other manufacturors do the same? Will the engines weigh less and have enough torque? The Ford eco-boost V-6 appears to have beaucoup torque and decent fuel economy. Just asking...
  • WishWish Posts: 7,893 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    The V6 in the Fords have turbo chargers among other things to achieve V8 power and better fuel economy. Not sure all those things can be marinized. But what do I know. Half the time I can't start my leaf blower.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • MCskiFreakMCskiFreak Posts: 327 Baller
    The problem with running a turbo motor like an eco-boost is a) getting a company to design the needed marine components and b) routing the associated plumbing for cooling the turbos in what is a very confined space.

    If the money is spent to develop that engine into a marine package I think it would be great for the industry.
    Matt Welton - Resident boat nerd
  • DWDW Posts: 2,057 Mega Baller
    Actually, the LS small block series from GM is all aluminum (block/heads/manifolds) and reduces the weight, but at a price so the marinizers aren't jumping 100% on them yet. You could certainly special order one if you wanted, they are available. The series goes from 5.7 liter (LS2) to 7.0 liter (LS7). Transmissions could certainly use an aluminum case. One step farther on the trans case, use magnesium just like VW/Porsche do for their gearboxes. Correct, reduding weight makes a huge difference, I have pulled 250 out of mine and it shows.
  • Bill GladdingBill Gladding Posts: 109 Baller
    edited October 2011
    Transmissions at least on new stuff are already aluminum. Give me an aluminum block and heads then give me closed loop cooling and heat exchanger. Aluminum manifolds don't last unless used only in freshwater but they don't cost as much as an engine if they do. I drove a Maristar 230 with a VW diesel in it. It pushed the Maristar pretty well but wasn't a racehorse up to max speed. It had closed loop cooling and was a V6 advertised at 325kg bobtail. No cheap or simple substitute for cubic inches and iron but something will come along eventually along with changes in the hull construction and design also.
  • konakona Posts: 529 Baller
    "Does it seem weird to anyone else that such drastic measures are being taken to improve the wake of a brand new boat? For that kind of $$$ I would expect a boat that skiied great at all speeds/line lengths."

    That makes me laugh.
    Bob Boyle - I am my girls father
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,207 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I find it odd that if a little weight in the nose or a little hook in the hull clearly makes a boat better that the manufacturer(s) don't set their boats up this way. Or when the majority of skiers prefer a prop that is not standard...why isn't it the standard prop? Given something as simple as prop choice, one would expect the best prop for the job when spending $50K.
    Having said all of this...I have not skied a MC 197, CC 196/200 or 'BU LX/LXI I don't like unless too many people/too much gas in it. Even then I only notice more bump at 28 off but shorter is fine.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • MCskiFreakMCskiFreak Posts: 327 Baller
    @kona, a boat with a good shortline 36mph wake as well as good slow speed long line wakes, and good trick table are very nearly diametrically opposed. In other words you end up with a severely compromised boat that everyone would have some gripe about.
    Matt Welton - Resident boat nerd
  • DWDW Posts: 2,057 Mega Baller
    Also, don't forget that the boat has to appeal to a fairly wide audience, so things like trunks, big tanks, plush upholstry are needed to sell to the "masses". Many of these things hurt the wake but are needed to sell them.
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