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whats surfings got that water sliing doesnt

dislanddisland Posts: 1,423 Mega Baller
edited November 2011 in News & Other Stuff
20 years ago surfing as a competitive sport was way smaller sport than water skiing. Look what they are now.

One reason is they have a great champion who has given his all to the sport. See link to video below

We can learn a lot from the ASP in how to promote events. They have a much harder challenge as due to waiting periods fans dont even know in advance when the event will be. Still 1000's of people show up on no notice to see Kelly will his 11th world title.

Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
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Comments

  • ralral Posts: 1,764 Mega Baller
    It is fun to watch a tournament even if you do not know how to surf at a decent level?
    You can figure out who is the best by just looking and not get an explanation that the guy, although looking in far worst shape, had a rope 1.5 feet shorter?
    You do not discuss if ZO ABC-123 is going to kill the sport?
    Yo do not have to think about making an option to ride a 35mph wave?
    OB's point: Lots of small bikinis in the beach?
    Rodrigo Andai
    [Deleted User]
  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,374 Mega Baller
    What surfing has that waterskiing doesn't is a HUGE lifestyle perception driven clothing and accessories industry fronting it. The World Championship Tour (WCT) and the lower-scale World Qualifying Series (WQS) are sponsored and marketed by Quiksilver, Billabong, Ripcurl, O'Neill, etc., etc. ASP is just the organizational body for the tours. Waterskiing will have to attract similar large sponsors to generate the money. Surfing is not on TV either (except for some videos on Fuel TV). I love both sports and saw Kelly win his 11th title yesterday in the webcast from Ocean Beach, SF. Pick up any surfing magazine and take a look at the advertising. We would have to convince the O'Neills and other companies of the world to invest in waterskiing.
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
  • WishWish Posts: 8,095 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited November 2011
    Amazing scenery
    Beaches
    Audience already at the beach
    Anyone can give it a go with almost 0$ investment (used boards)
    World wide appeal
    Been around longer
    No EPA restrictions on (surfing) use of water
    Visually stunning

    Just sayn..

    Now when I think of the popularity of skateboarding I kinda scratch my head and wonder why.
    QUICK, somebody get Vans to make a waterski boot.....

    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,423 Mega Baller
    good input guys, do understand history. Billabong, Ripcurl didnt even exist until surfing competitions started to create a buzz and a lifestyle that the industry promoted. We have a lot of the tings that Wish has on his list. We just dont promote it. We are making progress with events like LA night jam and London night jump. I just hold up the ASP as a good example for IWWF and the like to emulate
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,423 Mega Baller
    RAL your ZO comment was funny. Then again you hear the surf commentators going nutty over Slaters 4 fin board, same thing with Lindsey Vonn's mens GS and DH skies
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,374 Mega Baller
    Yes, surf competitions began before the big clothing companies, but the sport was very small and money very low. Make no mistake, the wealth of the sport today is absolutely driven by the clothing and accessory companies. The "product", the surfers and the waves is a good sell, too. Your focus on the ASP though is misplaced. ASP is not why the sport has money. Golf doesn't have money because of the PGA or USGA, it has money because of the sponsors that are large and numerous. Same with tennis, same with NASCAR. It is good that we are trying to improve our "product" through the pro tours stops, the various night jump comps, etc.. That is what we have to sell to the sponsors.
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,374 Mega Baller
    Five fin now. He's got that little trailing fin on there, too. He is more experimental with his board and fin setups than most of the top 44.
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
  • WishWish Posts: 8,095 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Sponsors want numbers. Without and audience (a big audience) there's no way the big outside sponsors will come. It's a double edge sward. I recently asked (out of curiosity) a big wig of a major company that for the most part would play a role in our sport (mostly in the boating end of things) what a sponsorship would require. His response was a question......"will it reach 50,000 people??" The answer ended that conversation.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 1,187 Open or Level 9 Skier
    Isnt it a pure numbers thing? O'Neill makes surf suits and still some waterski gear. Which do they sell more of? Those figures must drive how they choose to invest in sports sponsorship. Sell more waterski wetsuits, get more waterski sponsorship cash eh? For apparel, as Jim said, there is the lifestyle market. It seems to me the surf lifestyle seems to make more sense to the masses than the waterski lifestyle.
    KB
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,423 Mega Baller
    bishop, my point exactly. Surfers in the 70's were pot smoking losers without a job. Now they are main stream hero's and role models. Its all how it gets promoted. Good point on wet suits. i dont think water skiing gets credit for all the wetsuits we buy
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,374 Mega Baller
    Geez disland, I was a surfer in the '70s. Were you?

    "...all of the basic fun banter"
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,407 Administrator


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  • WishWish Posts: 8,095 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I like private lakes now and surfing is officially off my bucket list. Thanks John..... really no joke.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • rodltg2rodltg2 Posts: 1,051 Crazy Baller
    edited November 2011
    I had a concept for an event that would be more of an exhibition with a tournament snuck in. I couldnt not get any local businesses interested.
    I wanted to include barefoot( Willie Farell was on board) and wakeboarding of course. The only way to get the masses to attend is to add "wow" to the event. Slalom is more like " yawn ". For example my wife's not skier, and just the thought that she may me dragged to the ski lake resembles the same look I get when I get dragged clothes shopping. If an organizer could add food vendors, beer garden, kids area and some bands, I think it would be a hit.I also thought offering ski demos, or a quick pro lesson after the show would have been cool. I just don't think anyone is willing to take the risk in attempting something like this. If I owned my own lake, I would take on the challenge.
  • MCskiFreakMCskiFreak Posts: 327 Baller
    Right now the closet thing that the industry have are the 2011 Global invitational which was held at a public park with public beach, I thought it was a huge success; London night jump; and a few or the wakeboard pro tour stops; Malibu; and Moomba. The only way to get more exposure is to get away from the private waters, which may be a hard sell to some of the pros unless there is bigger money involved.
    Matt Welton - Resident boat nerd
  • boarditupboarditup Posts: 585 Crazy Baller
    You cannot get the public hooked on spectating waterskiing if we cannot get our own out to the events, why would anyone else show up? Trying to rent a crowd like Milwaukee or the Global Invitational does not give the potential sponsors what they are looking for if the demographics are not right. Boat dealers are seeking to sell boats and skis and are attracted to the upscale demographics of the typical skier. Other sponsors are typically attracted to the same demographics. Mixing upscale skiers with lower income demographics dilutes what potential sponsors are looking for. We need to have a self-sorted crowd of fairly consistent demographics that sponsors can plan on.

    Surfing works because of the surfers that gather at the competitions for several days. It is a festival-like atmosphere. Same with skateboarding. All of these events have a significant core of enthusiasts that spectate and bring a lot of family and friends. If waterskiing cannot attract and keep its own, what is there for anyone else?
    Karl DeLooff - Powered by the wind
    [Deleted User]
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,975 Infinite Pandas
    A college surf tournament was right in front of our house in San Diego a couple of weeks ago. Spectators, none other than the other competitors. A few pop up tents from the schools, just like a college waterski tournament. There was one sponsor tent so I guess they have an advantage there. But it was in the same league as a waterski tournament.

    Private sites may be poor for spectator crowds but TV is the real source of spectators. Dave Benzel and Tony Lightfoot made even slalom skiing interesting. Private sites make for quality skiing, the commentators can really take advantage of that.

    Seriously, poker is the reason waterskiing is dead. Poker is the least expensive "sport?" to produce for TV. It involves the basest excitement - gambling. It's OK to drink (did Zack get kicked off the waterski team for a couple drinks?) - they encourage you to drink at the casinos. There are no bikinis but realistically most TV viewers really don't stand a chance with a quality bikini - unless they win a ton of money in a poker jackpot.

    It has been a while since I've watched a surf contest on TV. Beach volleyball is dead - fallen from much higher than waterskiing. Snow skiing is barely on US TV. Gymnastics, skating any of the wide world of sports are pre-empted by poker athletes ("do you see how he pulls his sweatshirt hood over his face, what style!"). I don't see a working model of a sport that is working - unless it is based on alcohol fueled gambling. Maybe we should just accept that skiing is fun and be satisfied with that.

    And surf recreationally because it is fun too.

    Eric
    [Deleted User]
  • The_MSThe_MS Posts: 5,712 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    Beer and Kinis
    Shut up and ski
    [Deleted User]
  • BulldogBulldog Posts: 1,031 Crazy Baller
    cheap equipment
    Mike Loeffler - "Someone somewhere is having a real problem today...My bad skiing is NOT one of them"
  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,374 Mega Baller
    Cheap unless you are really into it, then you will have a quiver of boards all with different lengths at roughly $500 - $800 each, fin set ups, wetsuits, leashes, sometimes a boat for access to spots and the most expensive - travel. Surf trips to Mexico, Hawaii, Indo, Tahiti, ......But, you're right, you can make it cheap if you want.

    Again, most of you are focused on the wrong aspects of surfing and where the money comes from. It doesn't come from the public attending contests to watch. It comes from the major sponsors dumping money into "the industry" to advertise and sell their products. The surfers make money from competition if they are in the top 44 in the world and/or they make money from the sponsors whose clothes, shoes, sunglasses, and watches they help hawk. Some surfers don't compete and just travel making surf videos for the sponsoring companies and do quite well that way. Unless we get similar sponsorship into this sport, there won't likely be decent money for our elite athletes. I agree with Eric, it's fun, so let's just be happy with that.
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
  • BulldogBulldog Posts: 1,031 Crazy Baller
    It is way cheaper than a 50K boat!!
    Mike Loeffler - "Someone somewhere is having a real problem today...My bad skiing is NOT one of them"
  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,374 Mega Baller
    You don't have to own a boat to ski, though, right? I don't.
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,733 Mega Baller
    Eric -- Sliding dangerously off topic here, but I continue to be amazed that anyone except Game Theory geeks (like me) watch so much poker. I'm loving the fact that I can watch the best Applied Game Theorists in the world in a (usually) exciting format. But the mass appeal has me really confused. Geeks playing cards? Next we'll be televising Dungeons and Dragons...

    I guess it's gotta be the illusion of "that's easy; I could win millions of dollars, too!" ?? Or is the just the manufactured drama of flipping the cards really slowly after all the betting (and therefore all the actual strategy) is done, which I guess must relate to the human instinct to play games that are 100% luck like slots or lottery.

    I is confused. But I'm not complaining either. I'll keep watching until everybody else realizes that poker contains nothing that they are interested in :).
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • A counter-culture image...even though any 13-yr-old can walk into a mall in Des Moines and pick up a Quicksilver shirt from PacSun. Still, there's a "cool" image I don't think skiing will ever be able to match. We have seen the wakeboarding culture go that way the last 15 years too. Slalom will never be promoted as an X Games event.

  • RogerCRogerC Posts: 8 Baller
    It's not easy to get into. Waterskiers are friendliest people in the world when you somehow get on their lake or dock - but before that we protect our scarce, fun resources from others almost as if they were members of Al-Qaeda.
  • PBDPBD Posts: 190 Baller
    "It's not easy to get into. Waterskiers are friendliest people in the world when you somehow get on their lake or dock - but before that we protect our scarce, fun resources from others almost as if they were members of Al-Qaeda. "

    And do you think it is any different for surfers? It might be worse. I don't know of any instances of skiers cars being vandalized in the parking lot while they're at the lake by "locals" who feel they own the water.
  • D-LawD-Law Posts: 51 Baller
    Followers who can spell
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,407 Administrator
    image

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Connelly  ★ Basta ★ DBSkis ★ Denali ★ Goode ★ Hobe Lake ★ HO Syndicate ★ MasterCraft

    Masterline ★ McClintock's ★ Performance Ski and Surf ★ Reflex ★ Radar 

    Stella Blue ★ Stokes ★ World WaterSki League

     

  • dthatedthate Posts: 181 Baller
    surfing is wonderful......
  • dthatedthate Posts: 181 Baller
    edited November 2011
    did y'all watch movie "soul surfer" great movie, now my 5 year old son ask's for a shark everyday
    dad....dad...dad...can we get a shark today
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