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What comes after 43 off?

HortonHorton Posts: 30,608 Administrator
edited January 2012 in Technique & Theory
I know this is crazy talk but lets just say someone runs 43, what happens next?

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  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 2,273
    SAINT-HOOD !!!!
    Special Thanks to Performance Ski and Surf and the Denali Adam's !!!
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,608 Administrator
    My brother always thought that after 41 the boat speed should go up.

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  • WishWish Posts: 8,269 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    If that happens, future NBA players will have to switch to water skiing.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • lottawattalottawatta Posts: 127 Baller
    According to the rules (10.06 c) you take off another .25 meter.
  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    Don't know, but you do need another higher bar out there if it happens!
    Jim Ross
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,608 Administrator
    Seems like changing speed after 41 would promote technique over height

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  • Phil2360Phil2360 Posts: 367 Baller
    Slight tangent,

    I've always wondered how a rule about handle section length would work.
    As in skier's vertical reach plus handle section length equals, say 12 feet.

    You could test it with a pole that the handle section connected to & was stood vertical.
    Skier would have to be able to completely wrap his palm around the centre of the handle for the
    rope length to be correct.

    Would even the playing field as far as skiers height is concerned.
  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,263 Mega Baller
    edited January 2012
    @Horton I think this topic was discussed not to long ago. I will do some searching and see if I can come up with a link...
  • Onside135Onside135 Posts: 443 Crazy Baller
    edited January 2012
    @Phil2360...I don't think a rule like that would be a good thing. Also, I don't know of any other sport that does this that could set a precedent for this type of rule. With few exceptions within gender specific sports, most dimensions and rules are standardized. I think buoy distances and rope lengths should also be. We should not cater to shorter people, or in the same ruling challenge taller folks. The NBA doesn't lower its hoops, marathons don't care about stride length, and pro golfers all play from the same tee boxes...
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,608 Administrator
    I am just thinking that we could get to a point where a 7' tall guy will come in and crush the sport. I am not sure that Smith or CP could physically get to the ball at 44 1/2 off.

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  • Ed_ObermeierEd_Obermeier Posts: 1,345 Crazy Baller
    I know this is crazy talk but lets just say someone runs 43, what happens next?
    Who cares? Never gonna happen.
    Ed Obermeier - owner, EZ-Slalom Course Systems
    www.ez-slalom.com
    [Deleted User]
  • Onside135Onside135 Posts: 443 Crazy Baller
    A guy who is destined to be 7' tall realizes this at an early age. Appropriately, his parents and friends encourage him to focus on basketball. Until our sport grows to where guys can get full rides to Duke for water skiing, this is not an issue! Like Ed says..."Never gonna happen" Also, who makes bindings for Size 18s?
  • Ed_ObermeierEd_Obermeier Posts: 1,345 Crazy Baller
    edited January 2012
    If the 7 footer comes along who can run 41 I'd bet money that Eddie and the Radar boys would be more than happy to build him (or her) any ski and bindings required. But onside135 is right, until the day comes that the sport would financially support the decision for Mr. 7-footer to go into skiing...
    Ed Obermeier - owner, EZ-Slalom Course Systems
    www.ez-slalom.com
    [Deleted User]
  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,126
    We'll all cross that bridge (Beyond 43' off) when we come to it; like when we are able to inhabit the moon or something like that....
    Bob Grizzi
    [Deleted User]
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,711 Mega Baller
    Yes, b/c any goofy 7 footer need not apply. We all know it takes serious strength and athleticism to play our game so this 7 footer would be a hell of an athlete. It's also much more difficult to have the core strength necessary for our sport if the tower is so tall. Not going to happen.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 3,172 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @Phil2360 Will you have to put your arm under 45 pounds (or whatever it is) of tension to measure it?
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
    [Deleted User]
  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,126
    Yes this is my final answer to this questions....

    http://monkeybutt.ytmnd.com/
    Bob Grizzi
    [Deleted User]
  • Onside135Onside135 Posts: 443 Crazy Baller
    edited January 2012
    Initially most would argue that height is a direct advantage, but as I think @6balls is alluding to, there are also some downsides. Just being the slightest bit out of position is magnified for a person with a large frame. It may be more challenging to get perfectly stacked for a tall versus a shorter skier. Whereas a short and stocky guy can muscle his way through being a little out of position, a taller guy has more to overcome (think something about moment arms and force...maybe @Than_Bogan can validate this with an equation). Sounds reasonable in my mind anyway!
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,913 Mega Baller
    Yep. That's all valid physics as far as I know!
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • danbirchdanbirch Posts: 301 Baller
    edited January 2012
    Short in height is a dis-advantage. Ask Marcus Brown. He has to travel further to get his feet around the same balls (as well as get higher up on the boat). Also, It would about be the same thing as saying, a short person has an advantage to lifting more weight than a big guy. Big guy, more strength, more reach, better advantage in most physical sports, especially water skiing. Look at all of the top skiers at Nationals, Big Dawgs, and the Pro's. The pattern seems to be, Skinny & Tall (narrow center of gravity) with a long reach is the winning formula.

    Likewise, too tall can become an issue as well (maybe human beings who are TOO "lanky" become un-cooridenated?).
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,477 Mega Baller
    John has a point. Progression of the sport shouldn't be limited by physics, meaning someone has to be able to even reach that far. If the boat speed were increased it would bring ultra short line lengths in play for skiers of "average" height.

    If we look at the history of the sport why was 36mph even set as the boat speed. My guess is probably that was as fast as boats could even go back then. If we increased boat speed to 37mph it might make things more interesting.
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • The_MSThe_MS Posts: 6,160 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    nothing happens because like Ed says, it aint gonna happen.
    Shut up and ski
    [Deleted User]
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,913 Mega Baller
    @danbirch. I think it is clear that being shorter is a *net* disadvantage. That doesn't mean there are *no* advantages of being shorter.

    @everyone else: I actually brought up a very similar thing a while back, and I agree that going beyond -43 doesn't make a lot of sense. I'm slightly concerned about skier height becoming far too important, but I'm even more concerned about boat path becoming insanely important. A few inches could be the difference between possible and impossible. I don't want the sport to reach the point where records are just as much on the driver as on the skier.

    I support eventually creating a 38 mph division, but I wouldn't get too serious about that until running -43 becomes pretty regular, and I think that is still many years away.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,913 Mega Baller
    edited January 2012
    One more quickie. Even I, at a "mere" 6'2", can reach to about 8'2", which is about 2.5m. The ball itself is only about 25cm wide, so a ski has to pass 11.5m + 25m/2. Aggresively rounding that up, call it 11.7m.

    So it's theoretically possible that someone at my height could run a rope that was 11.7m - 2.5m = 9.2m. That not only covers 44 off (i.e. 9.5m), but also the next one (9.25m).

    So we're not really at the point where "freakish" height is physically required.

    But still, the basic point stands: We don't want this sport to ever become all about height and perfect boat path.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • RBRB Posts: 67 Baller
    Another 43 off run.

    Seriously, if it's ever accomplished, this will be the result.
    As they say, twice is skill.
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,306 Mega Baller
    A cigarette?
    [Deleted User]
  • ChetChet Posts: 60 Open or Level 9 Skier
    I dream of auto driving. Wonder what it would do to the sport and to this topic.
    Chet
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,224
    Than, records are already on the hands of the driver.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • matthewbrownmatthewbrown Posts: 522 Open or Level 9 Skier
    Horton, you are crazy. @Than --"A few inches could be the difference between possible and impossible. I don't want the sport to reach the point where records are just as much on the driver as on the skier." This is so true--
    at the super short line lenghts you can't compare performance at a site where buoys are 3" narrower, with a driver willing to give you another 4"-6" if you need it, with a rope/handle combo about 1/8" from being out of tolerance...vs...a dead on actual site, with a driver that doesn't budge, and a dead on rope and handle segment....the difference is enormous

    In this last scenario, with everything by the book how many current skiers could actually run 41..even in practice with no pressure? 3 guys?? Nate, Parrish, Willie...maybe also Degasperi when he's on..and possible Rossi when he's not skiing on ice in Utah-----all tall individuals and we are already thinking about what comes after 43..c'mon...

    41 is a monstrous accompishment even if the tolerances are pushed to the limit. In 2000 I saw Mapple run 41 4 times in practice, all different sets and on the last one he got to 3 ball at 43, he was in his prime and said he had never skied better... the only known variable was what my eyes told me, the driver was giving him 9-12" at each buoy, don't know about rope/handle length or buoy setup tolerances but the driving alone made a significant difference as I don't believe he ran 41 in any competition that year, much less 4 times--I guess my point is that when I hear about someone running mid-43 or what happens after 43 I know what kind of phemnomenal feat that would be and I highly doubt that with straight up tolerances anyone will every run 43--time will tell and you can never say never
    [Deleted User]
  • DirtDirt Posts: 1,684 Open or Level 9 Skier
    Would an auto-steer system even the playing field a bit more?
    Are the tolerances of the ski courses too wide?
    I learned everything I know not to do from Horton
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