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28' off, let me have it.

LazLaz Posts: 349 Solid Baller
edited January 2012 in Technique & Theory
Here is an average 28' off pass. I have only made 32' off once.





This is what I see is wrong:

Gate starts out good, but then I lose angle. Turns of the on side are okay, but worse on the off side. The biggest issue is that I finish the turn with my hands up in the air, not in good pulling position. Also, I cross the wakes too hunched over.

What else?
[Deleted User]

Comments

  • ktm300ktm300 Posts: 432 Solid Baller
    Imagine that there is a 2nd set of skier buoys overlaying the course. This second set of buoys is 5 feet wider and up course by 10-15 feet. Ski around the imaginary 2nd set. Your gate starts out nice and wide with potential but, after the second wake you are skiing straight to 1 ball which makes the whole pass down course. If imagining the 2nd set of buoys does not work, add real buoys at 1 and 6 as described. The form issues will be helped by starting up course.
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,711 Mega Baller
    If you could keep your line of sight cross course longer instead of staring right at the ball after you cross the wake, you may keep the line outbound better instead of skiing right at what you are looking at...the ball. Then you are forced to turn post ball and you are pretty far down course for 28 off. This does not mean pull longer.
    Keep fighting, you will get there.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • The_MSThe_MS Posts: 6,160 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    Awesome Ski you are riding so that is not the problem. KTM has some good points. Your running late.
    Shut up and ski
    [Deleted User]
  • alex38alex38 Posts: 517 Baller
    I have no place coaching, but me and my friends often remind each other to "ski wider". This always remind me to squeeze my elbows into my vest thru both wakes, there are endless discussions about skiing outbound off the second wake. I have my own theories, but the concept of riding my ski outbound off the second wake helps me get wide and early, again, I'm far from a coach, shouldn't even be typing right now.
  • LazLaz Posts: 349 Solid Baller
    Everything you say is so true. I was starting to run 28'off about half the time and feeling pretty good about it until....I saw the video. Looks like I have a lot to work on this summer. Thanks for the comments.
    [Deleted User]
  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 3,301 Mega Baller
    I see junk in the trunk! Working on keeping your hips up through out the whole sequence will help tremendously. It is hard to ski outbound when your hips are behind you, skiing 32 off is almost the same sequence as 28 with a bit more intensity, drive your hips up better and you will run 28 and 32 like it was nothing. Then it is on to 35! New Game!
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.


  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,711 Mega Baller
    Agree w/Jody as well watching it again. To become more stacked may help to think about hips up, but also may bring the hips forward thinking about proud chest up. Play with those ideas and pick what works best in your head to get you stacked.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • WishWish Posts: 8,269 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    You all beat me to it. What I saw that I liked was your shoulders were open to the boat through the pull phase. Nice. So, with the above said, you can go at this two ways (IMHO). One, try to do the above, bring hips to handle, while frantically chasing buoys. Or try this drill before your first pass through the course. Start drivers side. 32 off (if needed 28). Pull out past ball one and hold a lean the full lengths of the course staying as far outside the buoy line as you can. Find that sweet stacked position and hold. The better the stacked position the farther you will climb up on the boat and be wide of the buoy line. As you or if you lose the position, you will fall back. Drop or spin at the other end and do the same on opposite side full length of course again. Then run the course at normal opening pass/line length. . Much much easier to find that stacked position (hips to handle) and work muscle memory and feeeeeel what's what without chasing buoys. Simple and effective drill for all ages and for all levels.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • jmvana1jmvana1 Posts: 62 Baller
    @Laz thanks for the post. I'm at the same level and really enjoyed reading the tips. @KTM300 - excellent suggestion...now I can't wait to get on the water and try it!
    Life is good!
  • LazLaz Posts: 349 Solid Baller
    Thanks. I've now had four seasons since I took up this crazy sport (addiction). I'm amazed at how long it takes to make even the smallest changes. I guess the challenge is what keeps it interesting.
    [Deleted User]
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 2,273
    10 percent procedure....90 percent technique !!!
    Special Thanks to Performance Ski and Surf and the Denali Adam's !!!
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 4,592 Mega Baller
    @laz - since you're LFF, is your right hand up ?
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
    [Deleted User]
  • Onside135Onside135 Posts: 443 Crazy Baller
    edited January 2012
    Just like @alex38, I'm far from a coach. The biggest thing I noticed was that you forgot to pull your shorts over your thighs before the 55s. Accomplishing this might get you a little wider and early at 6 ball!
  • DustyDusty Posts: 315 Baller
    I watched it 4 times w/ about 6-8 stop frames per cut. Hips forward will tend to fix (some or all of?) this but I see a lot of ski out of the water- both directions, under acceleration. IMO-To allow it to achive its best speed/width and finish turns with better angle- I think it needs to be more level on the water. It would 'cast out' better then too. Bindings forward a hole may help. Ski seems to be wanting to be wanting to drop behind you a little as well. How is the ski set up? I like that you were NOT pulling longer to 'fix' runnng late- that would just have made turns more difficult with more speed/slack. And for what it's worth, I have seen a LOT of people run -32 and shorter with way (s)crappier form than yours! Hang in there, you are getting it.
  • IlivetoskiIlivetoski Posts: 1,190 Crazy Baller
    What you need to do (this has helped my dad more than anything else) is to get your hips to the handle. It can be difficult to literally force your hips to the handle so take your elbows and tuck them on your vest. Keep them there until you are ready to release the handle. The edge change will be easier, you will get wider, and it will take less energy.
  • LazLaz Posts: 349 Solid Baller
    edited January 2012
    This is all great advice. I notice that my back foot (right) seems to have too much weight. I don't think I'm keeping my weight even and that might be because my hips are not forward enough. I will try and fix that before moving my bindings. Probably won't ski again for two months, but I have a lot to think about.

    Thanks.
    [Deleted User]
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,608 Administrator
    edited February 2012
    My two cents is as follows

    Your biggest problem is the easiest one to identify for any skier and perhaps the most aggravating to correct. Your biggest problem is simply that you're not staying stacked throughout the course. The question is where you lose your stack and why?

    Before you rotate in for the Gates you have your center of mass way forward. By the time you've reached the first wake your rear leg is substantially more bent than your front leg. Approaching one ball you have re-centered yourself but on exit you have again lost your stack.

    With 36 seconds of video I don't think I can give very good advice in terms of a solution but I'm very confident about the problem. Your lack of angle and inability to keep the handle close to your body are byproducts of your lost stack.

    The one thing you might try is to focus on is your position on your gate. As you turn in make sure that your lower body rotates to the right before your upper body. The sooner you rotate your shoulders to the right the less likely you are to be in a strong position approaching the wakes.

    The issue is not your bindings

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  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,913 Mega Baller
    Also practice stacked position on shore. A LOT. It must become instinct. You want to get to where not being stacked feels bizarre and uncomfortable!
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • LazLaz Posts: 349 Solid Baller
    Again, thanks for the analysis. My self perception of my skiing took a serious hit after watching the video. However, it is a really great way to improve. I don't think I will get around 32' off without fixing these problems.

    This is why I have enjoyed skiing so much. I started out 4 years ago at 46k and 15' off. Each step up in boat speed or line length has been a major project requiring coaching, analysis and practice. I will keep at is long as I can (or until I complete the sport by running 43' off).

    Thanks Ballers!
    [Deleted User]
  • crashmancrashman Posts: 722 Crazy Baller
    Laz- awesome video and kudos on stones big enough to post it- I only hope I can make the kind of progression over the next 4 yrs you've made over the last 4.
    slalom addiction triggering irrational behavior
  • WishWish Posts: 8,269 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Than is correct. And drills work soooo well to get that feel. It may feel to fundamental but it is not. It is an esention position to develop and perhaps the most important to advance. And it's hard to practice it chasing little orange balls. Drills on land and drills on water.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • londonskierlondonskier Posts: 190 Baller
    Thanks for posting Laz. I saw me ski when I watched your video (different hairstyle). Horton can you explain "stacked" please? much appreciated. [London weather 26 deg F - no ice].
  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,409 Mega Baller
    We need a t-shirt that says "ah, man, I lost my flippin' stack."

    Agree with what Horton says about the turn in for your gate. As you just begin to edge in is when you want to focus on maintaining that stack that you have on your glide. if you let your hips drop back as you are turning in you will likely not get them back under you until the load is off coming into the next turn which is too late. You might see some good skiers let their hips drop down or back a bit as they are turning in, but they are likely adept at getting them back up as they approach the first wake ala Andy Mapple.
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,608 Administrator

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Barts★ Connelly ★ DBSkis ★ Denali ★ Goode ★ Follow ★ Hobe Lake ★ MasterCraft ★ Masterline ★ 

    McClintock's ★ Performance Ski and Surf ★ Reflex ★ Radar ★ Rodics OffCourseStokes

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